# What's the SD on artificial sugar sodas and "bad for diabetes?"
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [May 27, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546 "2017-05-27T17:33:06Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/1 "2017-05-27T17:33:06Z")
I’ve heard this more and more these days: something about the various sugar substitutes being unhealthy, not by causing cancer or halitosis or boogie-woogie flu, but the latest knock on them, that they are counterproductive for sugar control.
Back when I think “they” said that it was a psychosomatic thing (in the true sense of the word), in that the sensation of sugar/sweet made your pancreas think the real stuff was there, or something.
Which I could believe as a research result somewhere, but so much as to actually be deleterious?
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### Author:  [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/2 "2017-05-27T21:11:22Z")
I wonder about this as well.
A possible complicating factor: carbonation alone can [increase appetite](http://www.obesityresearchclinicalpractice.com/article/S1871-403X(17)30006-6/fulltext).
(Note that the researchers are from Birzeit University in the West Bank. Interesting.)
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### Author:  [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/3 "2017-05-27T21:27:35Z")
Regarding aspartame:
> [@](#):
>
> We conclude that ingestion of aspartame- or saccharin-sweetened beverages by fasting subjects, with or without diabetes, did not affect blood glucose homeostasis.
> **[Response to single dose of aspartame or saccharin by NIDDM patients - PubMed](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3046854/)**
>
> Twelve normal subjects and 10 subjects with non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus were given, in random order at intervals of greater than or equal to 1 wk, three drinks of the same beverage: one unsweetened, one sweetened with 400 mg aspartame,...
> [@](#):
>
> We conclude that use of aspartame as a low-calorie sweetener does not adversely affect glycemic control of persons with diabetes.
> **[Aspartame use by persons with diabetes - PubMed](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3902420/)**
>
> Sixty-two subjects having either insulin-dependent or non-insulin-dependent diabetes completed a randomized, double-blind study comparing effects of aspartame or a placebo on blood glucose control. Twenty-nine subjects consumed 2.7 g aspartame per...
> [@](#):
>
> Aspartame ingestion for three days at a dose of 24-48 mg per day and the intake of snacks flavored with 240 mg of aspartame also did not increase fasting plasma glucose levels. These results suggest that acute administration of aspartame has no influence on plasma glucose or insulin levels in diabetic rats and patients with non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus.
> **[Effects of aspartame on diabetic rats and diabetic patients - PubMed](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3908628/)**
>
> The effects of aspartame (L-aspartyl-L-phenylalanine methyl ester) on plasma glucose and insulin levels were investigated in diabetic rats and patients with non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus. The oral administration of 0.45 mg aspartame per...
AFAIK, the reason this is a concern to a people is mainly due to what’s discussed in the article below:
> **[Sour study on artificial sweeteners: Why the headlines?](https://www.acsh.org/news/2013/07/12/sour-study-on-artificial-sweeteners-why-the-headlines)**
>
> Opinion piece alleging that artificially sweetened sodas are as likely to cause obesity as sugary drinks is not remotely a scientific study, despite the headlines implying that it is.
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### Author:  [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/4 "2017-05-27T23:58:16Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#):
>
> Regarding aspartame:
>
> …
> [http://www.acsh.org/news/2013/07/12/sour-study-on-artificial-sweeteners-why-the-headlines](http://www.acsh.org/news/2013/07/12/sour-study-on-artificial-sweeteners-why-the-headlines)
Thank you for SD.
Amazing.
Yup, cancer and boogie-woogie flu.
And thanks especially for the paper from the American Council on Science and Health.
ETA: So it turns out that “they” was one dingbat article that started it all (and remained it).
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### Author:  [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/5 "2017-05-28T00:17:31Z")
I read somewhere that it isn’t the artificial sweetener itself, the skinny of it was the fact that it tricks your brain/body into thinking you had sugar when it did not, confuses your body and you wind up consuming or not consuming your controlled amount because of this. Carefully monitoring what you eat and your insulin levels are key from what I know. The artificial stuff doesn’t apparently directly cause any issues.
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### Author:  [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/6 "2017-05-28T00:44:24Z")
FWIW, the clinic doctor I’ve been seeing recommended Stevia over Aspartame but I don’t remember why. I like the taste better, so there’s that.
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### Author:  [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2017, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/7 "2017-05-28T01:30:35Z")
Was this whole thing really stared by an opinion piece without any actual research? I find that incredible. Has there been any actual research since 2013? Is there any legitimate reason to avoid artificial sweeteners (especially in diet sodas–ignoring caffeine, which is a separate and separable issue).
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### Author:  [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/8 "2017-05-28T01:32:14Z")
I thought the “drawback” to aspartame was chiefly a psychological one in that it made people eat more food, even more than they would without the diet soda, because they mistakenly believe they’ve “saved” calories and can splurge elsewhere.
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### Author:  [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2017, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/9 "2017-05-28T01:33:36Z")
When I was in school, they told me you produce insulin if you think about eating (about 10% of what you would when actually having a meal), so maybe this is something similar.
But I saw no evidence that you produce more insulin when you think about eating or drinking something sugary (whether or not it’s “real” sugar).
I have a huge sweet tooth but I found out the hard way that sucralose makes me want to throw up. Even without that experience I do not like artificial food. (Refined, yes, but not blatantly artificial.)
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### Author:  [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2017, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/10 "2017-05-28T01:41:26Z")
Again, just throwing it out there: a friend of mine states emphatically that Splenda should be avoided because the manufacturing process uses fluorine which, I assume, he believes is still in the finished product. :dubious:
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### Author:  [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2017, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/11 "2017-05-28T02:49:47Z")
Does anyone besides ftg and x-ray vision have cites, or just speculation?
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### Author:  [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2017, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/12 "2017-05-28T02:57:01Z")
Didn’t mean to be snarky, I just really want to know if there is any actual research that’s been done. I’ve thought about asking this question here myself.
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### Author:  [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2017, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/13 "2017-05-28T07:58:09Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#):
>
> Was this whole thing really stared by an opinion piece without any actual research? I find that incredible.
Of course, there’s been research. Unfortunately it’s a complex problem and the results are mixed. [This](http://endocrinenews.endocrine.org/sweet-lowdown-artificial-sweeteners-weight-gain/) looks like a decent overview of the topic.
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### Author:  [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2017, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/14 "2017-05-28T12:52:45Z")
Not so fast. Here is what I read and, no I don’t know a cite although someone with more google-fu than me might find one.
First, to everyone’s surprise, it turns out there are taste buds in the intestines. They are fooled in the same way that the ones in the tongue by artificial sweeteners. Possibly not by the same ones, but that would be the default assumption. When they detect sweetness (which could, after all, be the result of digestion of starch, which might be an explanation of why a backup system of taste buds is needed), they signal the brain to crank up the production of insulin. Then cells, repeatedly finding insulin, but not glucose, become resistant to insulin. This insulin resistance is the main step on the way to type 2 diabetes.
Isn’t physiology wonderful?
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### Author:  [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2017, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/15 "2017-05-28T13:09:42Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#):
>
> Was this whole thing really stared by an opinion piece without any actual research? I find that incredible. Has there been any actual research since 2013? Is there any legitimate reason to avoid artificial sweeteners (especially in diet sodas–ignoring caffeine, which is a separate and separable issue).
They all taste nasty :p. That’s the most legitimate reason I can think of. As far as the direct effects on your health, if you have PKU you need to avoid aspartame, and that’s about it. From my personal observations the weight gain associated with artificial sweeteners is probably due to the “I’ll have a double bacon cheeseburger, super sized fries, and a Diet Coke” style of eating.
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/16 "2017-05-28T13:28:29Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#):
>
> Not so fast. Here is what I read and, no I don’t know a cite although someone with more google-fu than me might find one.
>
> First, to everyone’s surprise, it turns out there are taste buds in the intestines. They are fooled in the same way that the ones in the tongue by artificial sweeteners. Possibly not by the same ones, but that would be the default assumption. When they detect sweetness (which could, after all, be the result of digestion of starch, which might be an explanation of why a backup system of taste buds is needed), they signal the brain to crank up the production of insulin. Then cells, repeatedly finding insulin, but not glucose, become resistant to insulin. This insulin resistance is the main step on the way to type 2 diabetes.
>
> Isn’t physiology wonderful?
I don’t feel like you should be repeating this without some sort of credible cite. There are some studies that show taste receptors in the intestines but to my knowledge only conjecture concerning the insulin release at this point.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2017, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/17 "2017-05-28T13:57:16Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#):
>
> I don’t feel like you should be repeating this without some sort of credible cite. There are some studies that show taste receptors in the intestines but to my knowledge only conjecture concerning the insulin release at this point.
Well I can help with this, to at least some degree. It’s a very slightly indirect relationship to an impact on insulin secretion.
Those intestinal taste buds seem to cause release of [incretins](http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/301/2/E317.short) (like GLP-1), which [in turn modulates insulin secretion](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22776039).
To what degree artificial sweetener stimulation of that response has any (let alone meaningful) impact in real world conditions is unclear though.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2017, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/18 "2017-05-28T14:51:15Z")
As a side note, some of the same people flogging the artificial-sweeteners-cause-diabetes theory also claim that these sweeteners (especially aspartame) are “toxic” and “poisonous” based on similarly misunderstood and invented physiology.
Do a search on aspartame “toxicity” and you’ll find a cornucopia of crazy, including its description as “Donald Rumsfeld’s bioweapon legacy” and frantic warnings about how its metabolism produces formaldehyde and methanol.\*
\*both of these substances are produced in similarly small quantities as part of normal human metabolism; for example methanol results from the biochemical breakdown of fruits, vegetables and ethanol. So maybe we should eliminate them from our diet too, because TOXINS!
Bottom line: be careful about your sources, and be aware that “reliable” mainstream media likes to to tout headlines about the latest studies, while not analyzing their relevance and how they fit into our overall knowledge base.
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### Author:  [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/19 "2017-05-28T15:04:15Z")
Nm
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-sd-on-artificial-sugar-sodas-and-bad-for-diabetes/787546/20 "2017-06-22T17:41:17Z")
[Here is a recent article](https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/aspartame-dangers-another-myth-without-scientific-evidence/#more-10495), backed by cites, that does a pretty good job debunking the supposed dangers of Aspartame.
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