# What's the SECOND best graphic novel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 26, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879 "2009-03-26T16:52:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![The\_Superhero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Superhero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Superhero)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/101 "2009-03-30T03:17:45Z")
> [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](#): > > I’ve never quite understood the love for _Maus_. Its a good read and very originally put together but **seriously flawed in being too personal and introspective**. (bolding mine, of course) I don’t see how it is possible for a book that is, in large part, Spiegelman’s own analysis of his tricky relationship with his father to be “too personal and introspective,” but obviously I can’t really gainsay your opinion. You say bug, I say feature. ---
**Author:** ![First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/First_Amongst_Daves)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/102 "2009-03-30T04:00:33Z")
> [@The\_Superhero](#): > > (bolding mine, of course) > > I don’t see how it is possible for a book that is, in large part, Spiegelman’s own analysis of his tricky relationship with his father to be “too personal and introspective,” but obviously I can’t really gainsay your opinion. You say bug, I say feature. Yes, I’m conscious that Spiegelman’s awkward relationship with his father, andhow this came through in the text, was part of the appeal for many people. I thought it detracted and was self-indulgent. Different perspectives. ---
**Author:** ![GameHat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@GameHat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GameHat)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/103 "2009-03-30T04:35:57Z")
I second Persepolis. Really liked the movie, which inspired me to read the GN. Just great. ---
**Author:** ![vdgg81](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@vdgg81](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vdgg81)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/104 "2009-03-30T12:45:59Z")
> [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](#): > > Top 10 … [is] merely a quirky TV cop show masquerading as a superhero comic, and if you haven’t read comics for 20-30 years most of the easter eggs aren’t apparent… - you need to understand pop culture to properly access and understand it. > > The book is hardly self-contained, in the same sense as something like Moore’s other work from the turn of the century, Promethea (and even then Promethea has a big shout-out to Fantastic Four in the presence of the Five). > [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](#): > > **Cisco** - how is Top 10 deep? There’s a series of murders. With no real detective work but just the use of one of the characters superpowers the crime is solved, and the culprit is someone we might have suspected fairly quickly. Its pretty close in calibre to Moore’s work on Wildcats, but instead with sometimes dozens of Easter Eggs in some panels (the knock-off of the first issue cover of Crisis of Infinite Earths, with Pariah leading a conga line, as an ad for multi-dimensional vacations, still makes me chuckle every time I read it). Don’t tell me I missed something… 😃 > [@shy\_guy](#): > > I love _Top Ten_ and I agree pretty much word-for-word with **First Amongst Daves** ’s assessment of it. > > It’s tons of fun and excellently written, but it’s not really very challenging except in the sense that you have to have read a lot of comics to get all of the references contained within it. > > If I were to compare it to a movie, it’d be something like _Shaun of the Dead_. Fantastic movie and a geeky delight, but I wouldn’t call it particularly deep. > … I really have to stop posting in this thread before I start looking like some sort of Moore zealot… I wouldn’t call _Top Ten_ deep, as I’m not even sure what it means, really. It sure isn’t as layered or as important as other works by Moore and has no literary pretensions. Except for issue 8. That one was “deep”. It’s the one with the huge teleportation mishap: the human drama was fantastic and the huge alien’s explanation of the great game brought me chills when I read it: > [@](#): > > _Mr. Nebula, a human, and Kapela, a huge alien, have had their bodies fused together in an accident and are slowly dying on top of a building. After a day of this, night comes and they’re almost dead. The alien explains his religion, “The Great Game” to the human that dies talking to his wife, already deceased from the same accident._ > > Kapela: Look above you. Do you see? That is called the immense board of lights. And there is the great black… And, strewn across it, small and surrounded and vulnerable and brave… … there is the great white. > > Mr. Nebula: Oh. Oh, yeah. Of course. Ha. You know, that’s perfect. That’s really perfect. And the great white… I mean, there’s so much more black. A-are we losing? > > Kapela: No. Once there was only black. We are winning. All is right. We can go. > > Mr. Nebula: Yeah. Yeah, I guess we can. Hey, Saroona? You remenber that time in Ursool, out in the cloud islands when we… _[he dies, followed closely by Kapela]_ But it does have well-written, three-dimensional characters inhabiting a very well thought world. Sure, it’s explicitly modeled after a TV cop show, but it’s much more like _Homicide_ than _Law and Order_, only with lots more laughs and zaniness. (If, of course, you don’t think that _Homicide_ is all that different or any better than your regular cop show, that’s perfectly fine and the rest of this post can be disregarded.) What really got me was how I ended up feeling those characters and the city of Neapolis were real. It’s like between every panel dozens of stories were happening and each person that appeared on the comic was already there before the first issue and would go on living after the last. Moore’s characterization made the comic; who can dislike Irma or Joe Pi or feel untouched by Kemlo’s erotic dilemma (the love that dares not bark its name)? This was essential because the comics were not about solving crimes but about the people who worked the crimes and the place where they occurred. It was the human -superhuman?- drama, along with the humor that made it work. Also, this was another instance of the city as a character, and we got to know a lot about Neapolis - its particular style, the culture and the architecture, its youth culture and gangs and their slang, the fashion, the foods, the ethnicities that formed it, the nazi mad scientists that built it, even some of the music! The place is utterly preposterous but so well realized its utterly real as well; it’s somewhere were all those absurd characters can actually exist. That was impressive world building in the comics and went much beyond satire and parody. Each frame was filled not only with easter eggs but with mad ideas as well. I don’t think it requires too much knowledge of other comics either. The easter eggs are just that - bonuses. The only time I think that the references intrude on the narrative is on the Cosmic Mice Crossover, but even that is incidental. I sure didn’t get a lot of those references and still enjoyed the book. Just so I don’t praise the thing uncritically, let me say that it did have defects. Issue 7 (the one with the bar for the gods) is almost completely worthless. It would have been a good idea for a one panel gag, but stretching it to fit over 20 pages killed any humor pretty fast. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/105 "2009-03-30T13:20:02Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > As a collection or TPB, I’d rank Transmetropolitan as one of my favorites of all time. Plus, everyone I loan the series to tells me that within a few days they start feeling intense surges of righteous indignation every time they watch the news. 😃 Boy, this part’s true and I can’t believe I missed it. I run newspapers now and I require my rookie reporters to read it. Especially if they’re covering politics and such I want them to be pissed off and indignant. Spider Jerusalem should be the model for reporters for the foreseeable future. I’m running into some definition troubles here. What counts, for our purposes, as a graphic novel? Do open-ended series released in trade formats count? What if it’s done with one writer through the run? That would certainly count say, Sandman and Lucifer because they’re complete. But what about Bill Willingham’s FABLES. Would Cerebus have counted, as I mentioned previously? Yes, in theory it was one story (being a biography of the title character), but it took twenty-five YEARS for Dave Sim to finish it publishing once per month. Or what about Invincible? Or The Boys? Or The Walking Dead? Those are current ongoing titles. Hell, for my money The Boys is the single best book being published right now and anyone missing it is cheating themselves. ---
**Author:** ![phreesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@phreesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreesh)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/106 "2009-03-30T14:12:54Z")
It doesn’t sound like you’re familiar with the history of comics, but if you are, **Marvels** is an excellent retelling of the Marvel universe from an everyman’s perspective. Also, **A Superman for all Seasons** retells the Superman story from his origins very well. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/107 "2009-03-30T14:33:58Z")
> [@vdgg81](#): > > But it does have well-written, three-dimensional characters inhabiting a very well thought world. Sure, it’s explicitly modeled after a TV cop show, but it’s much more like _Homicide_ than _Law and Order_, only with lots more laughs and zaniness. (If, of course, you don’t think that _Homicide_ is all that different or any better than your regular cop show, that’s perfectly fine and the rest of this post can be disregarded.) I’ve never seen _Homocide_, but I don’t think anything in your post is something I would disagree with. It’s definitely a really good cop comic. But I think that’s all it is. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/108 "2009-03-30T14:34:46Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Or what about Invincible? Or The Boys? Or The Walking Dead? Those are current ongoing titles. Hell, for my money The Boys is the single best book being published right now and anyone missing it is cheating themselves. :dubious: Has it gotten better? I’m practically a Garth Ennis fanatic but I stopped buying it after issue 8 or so; it just wasn’t interesting me at all. ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/109 "2009-03-30T17:11:01Z")
I’ve started reading Sandman and I’m on the second book out of ten. And honestly… I’m not a big fan, if what I’ve read so far is true to the series as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Superhero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Superhero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Superhero)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/110 "2009-03-30T17:27:41Z")
> [@cactus\_waltz](#): > > I’ve started reading Sandman and I’m on the second book out of ten. And honestly… I’m not a big fan, if what I’ve read so far is true to the series as a whole. “Sandman” definitely takes a while to really get going. There’s a lot of good stuff in Volume 3, “Dream Country,” including two of my favorite one-off Sandman stories, “A Midsummer Night’s Dream” and “A Dream of a Thousand Cats.” It’s in Volume 4, “A Season of Mists” that “Sandman,” as a series and a long-form story really kicks into high gear. But overall, it just might not be your cuppa tea. It happens. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/111 "2009-03-30T17:29:22Z")
> [@The\_Superhero](#): > > “Sandman” definitely takes a while to really get going. There’s a lot of good stuff in Volume 3, “Dream Country,” including two of my favorite one-off Sandman stories, “A Midsummer Night’s Dream” and “A Dream of a Thousand Cats.” > > It’s in Volume 4, “A Season of Mists” that “Sandman,” as a series and a long-form story really kicks into high gear. I agree, it’s rather uneven, from _Great!_ to “meh”. ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/112 "2009-03-30T18:15:50Z")
Might not be my cup of tea, no. I don’t think Neil Gaiman is my kind of author, either. But I’ll give book three and four a shot too, at least. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/113 "2009-03-30T18:40:29Z")
I have to say, it also for me that “Season of Mists” drew me into Sandman. It’s a brilliant blend of religious/mythological lore, established DC Universe continuity, politics and backstabbing - and the title character shines there also. If you can’t enjoy that volume, you might as well give up on Sandman. But it definitely bears reading. ---
**Author:** ![First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/First_Amongst_Daves)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/114 "2009-03-31T03:25:12Z")
I agree entirely. Before Season of Mists it was pretty bland. After that there was nary a poor word written. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/115 "2009-03-31T03:31:30Z")
> [@The\_Superhero](#): > > “Sandman” definitely takes a while to really get going. There’s a lot of good stuff in Volume 3, “Dream Country,” including two of my favorite one-off Sandman stories, “A Midsummer Night’s Dream” and “A Dream of a Thousand Cats.” > > It’s in Volume 4, “A Season of Mists” that “Sandman,” as a series and a long-form story really kicks into high gear. > > But overall, it just might not be your cuppa tea. It happens. I thought books 1 and 2 were pretty decent. Enough to keep me coming back. I hate book 3 so badly though that I gave up on the series and didn’t read book 4 until someone finally convinced me to a few years later. I can’t even remember why I hated it, but I remember thinking it was the worst comic I’d ever read, and I can’t think of anything since then to change my mind, except maybe _Wanted_. It’s too bad, too, because when I finally read book 4 I adored it. It’s the high-point of the series IMO; the rest range from OK like the first two to almost, but not quite, as good as book 4. That book 3 was a real stinker, though, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/116 "2009-03-31T03:36:59Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > I haven’t read enough GNs to really be a good judge, but of the ones I have read, _Watchmen_, _Dark Knight Returns_, and _Batman: Year One_ are definitely right up there as the top three. yep, that would be my top three as well ---
**Author:** ![Tool\_of\_the\_Conspiracy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@Tool\_of\_the\_Conspiracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tool_of_the_Conspiracy)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/117 "2009-03-31T06:05:32Z")
Some of my favorites that haven’t been mentioned yet: **Eddy Current** : A troubled young man with a superhero fixation escapes from an asylum, with twelve hours to Save The World. **Grendel: The Devil Inside** : It’s been a long time since I read it, but I remember it being very intense. **Give Me Liberty** : The rise and fall of a great American hero, in a darkly-humorous setting reminiscent of Robocop. Some that push the definition of “graphic novel”: I’m still working my way through **Fables** , but so far, it seems comparable to **Sandman**. (On preview, I see that it has been mentioned now…) One that is more like an anthology than a novel: **Miracleman: The Golden Age**. (If \*\*Sandman \*\*counts as a single novel, this surely does.) ---
**Author:** ![Tool\_of\_the\_Conspiracy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@Tool\_of\_the\_Conspiracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tool_of_the_Conspiracy)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/118 "2009-03-31T06:26:46Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I thought books 1 and 2 were pretty decent. Enough to keep me coming back. I hate book 3 so badly though that I gave up on the series and didn’t read book 4 until someone finally convinced me to a few years later. I can’t even remember why I hated it, but I remember thinking it was the worst comic I’d ever read, and I can’t think of anything since then to change my mind, except maybe _Wanted_. It’s too bad, too, because when I finally read book 4 I adored it. It’s the high-point of the series IMO; the rest range from OK like the first two to almost, but not quite, as good as book 4. That book 3 was a real stinker, though, in my opinion. My mileage varies.🙂 I think book 1 is one of the weaker ones, but it lays the groundwork for later events, so it can’t be skipped. I love half of book 3, and enjoy the links between it and the \*\*Books of Magic \*\*miniseries that came out at about the same time. Do they still include “The Sound of Her Wings” in both book 1 and 2? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/119 "2009-03-31T08:27:20Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Hell, for my money The Boys is the single best book being published right now and anyone missing it is cheating themselves. Garth Ennis plowing the same “superheroes are vile” ground that Howard Chaykin & Rick Veitch (& Alan Moore) wore out twenty years ago? Are you trying to turn the newbie off to the form? If you want something dark, try [_Deogratias: A Tale of Rwanda_](http://www.curledup.com/deograti.htm) or maybe [_Pride of Baghdad_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_of_Baghdad). ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879/120 "2009-03-31T09:11:40Z")
> [@Tool\_of\_the\_Conspiracy](#): > > Do they still include “The Sound of Her Wings” in both book 1 and 2? The edition I read had “The Sound of Her Wings” only in book 1. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-second-best-graphic-novel/490879.md?page=7)