# What's the specific procedure for anti-gay therapy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 25, 2008, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098 "2008-09-25T01:26:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/1 "2008-09-25T01:26:12Z")
I see anti-gay therapy / sexual orientation therapies being promoted by some conservative religious groups to turn homosexual people back to heterosexuals, but I can’t find anything that describes the specific procedures. Is it aversion therapy, talk therapy… what? ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/2 "2008-09-25T01:51:26Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I see anti-gay therapy / sexual orientation therapies being promoted by some conservative religious groups to turn homosexual people back to heterosexuals, but I can’t find anything that describes the specific procedures. Is it aversion therapy, talk therapy… what? Usually prayer plus talk “therapy” (I put this in quotes because the major therapy-providing professional organizations do not regard conversion as a legitimate therapeutic technique). Aversion used to be used (e.g., electric shocks), but I’m not hearing that described as much these days (at least, in the U.S.). ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/3 "2008-09-25T03:55:01Z")
> [@astro](#): > > . . . to turn homosexual people back to heterosexuals . . . Is the word “back” your idea or theirs? It’s not like we started out straight, then something went horribly wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/4 "2008-09-25T04:04:15Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Is the word “back” your idea or theirs? It’s not like we started out straight, then something went horribly wrong. I applaud this statement. ETA: Errr, question. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/5 "2008-09-25T04:12:41Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Is the word “back” your idea or theirs? It’s not like we started out straight, then something went horribly wrong. Ha! speak for yourself! Well, I didn’t start out straight, but something certainly went horribly wrong . . . ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/6 "2008-09-25T04:22:14Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Is the word “back” your idea or theirs? It’s not like we started out straight, then something went horribly wrong. “It all started when I saw “The Wizard of Oz” for the first time, until that fateful day I was straight as an arrow!” ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/7 "2008-09-25T04:28:22Z")
I’m not going to link, but if you go to Conservapedia and search for “homosexuality,” you’ll find an article that includes an answer to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![BrassyPhrase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@BrassyPhrase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrassyPhrase)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/8 "2008-09-25T05:13:56Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I see anti-gay therapy / sexual orientation therapies being promoted by some conservative religious groups to turn homosexual people back to heterosexuals, but I can’t find anything that describes the specific procedures. Is it aversion therapy, talk therapy… what? I’ve wondered this myself. I’ve heard of dealing with say, a fear of spiders by forcing you to deal with spiders. (Aversion therapy, I think) Touching them, looking at pictures of them, etc. That’s confronting a phobia, yes. But then I always wondered-- Is ‘homosexual conversion’ “therapy” just about being more and more gay? B/c I’d be all over that if I were gay! Woohoo! I’m hooking up for therapy! 🙂 I use the quotes b/c I feel it’s such an utter load of horsecrap that I can’t even have respect for it. My .11 ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/9 "2008-09-25T05:23:29Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Usually prayer plus talk “therapy” (I put this in quotes because the major therapy-providing professional organizations do not regard conversion as a legitimate therapeutic technique). Aversion used to be used (e.g., electric shocks), but I’m not hearing that described as much these days (at least, in the U.S.). Maybe I’m not understanding your statement. Talk therapy is used all over the world by licensed psychiatrists to treat patients. Second, homosexuality isn’t a condition described in the DSM, so any techniques used to “cure” it couldn’t be described as therapeutic regardless of the methodology employed. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/10 "2008-09-25T07:13:20Z")
[Man that is one info packed page](http://www.conservapedia.com/Homosexuality). Apparently everything I thought about gayness being inherent was wrong! It’s a choice. …and lesbians are evil Evil .. _and fat!_ They’re evilicious! > [@](#): > > American Lesbian Women More Than Twice as Likely to Be Obese Than All other Female Sexual Orientation Groups > In April of 2007, the American Journal of Public Health analyzed data from 2002 National Survey of Family Growth and the data suggested that American lesbian women were 2.69 times more likely to be overweight and 2.47 times more likely to be obese than all other female sexual orientation groups. [189] The abstract for this study indicated that “lesbians are at greater risk for morbidity and mortality linked to overweight and obesity.” [190] ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/11 "2008-09-25T08:11:14Z")
I can’t seem to find a specific site atm, but wanted to mentioned ‘treatment’ for homosexuality is a violation of ethics of the American Psychological Association. Individual’s who practice these techniques are usually not licensed or are at risk of losing their license for doing do. So there are no approved procedures. It’s whatever some quack feels like trying. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/12 "2008-09-25T10:34:35Z")
PGA - Pray the Gay Away. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/13 "2008-09-25T10:38:35Z")
I don’t think there are any groups that would find homosexuality to be a problem without the religious overlay, so I think all they really have going for them is prayer. And I suppose the “afflicted” party would have to be a believer on some level, as well. I don’t know any atheists who look at it as a trait that should be corrected. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/14 "2008-09-25T10:43:47Z")
> [@BrassyPhrase](#): > > I’ve heard of dealing with say, a fear of spiders by forcing you to deal with spiders. (Aversion therapy, I think) Touching them, looking at pictures of them, etc. That’s confronting a phobia, yes. No, that’s not aversion therapy. Aversion therapy is when you try to extinguish (stop) a behavior by associating it with something unpleasant. If you are trying to quit smoking, and every time you crave a cigarette, you snap a rubber band on your wrist hard enough to hurt; that’s an aversion therapy technique. The idea is to link the craving with something unpleasant, so that you have the craving less and less often. It’s a dangerous technique, because you run the risk of getting it backwards and fetishizing the unpleasantness - that is, transfering your craving from cigarettes to pain in your wrist. Which is guess is better in that a rubber band on your wrist won’t kill you, but it could conceivably lead to stronger wrist pain seeking, like cutting or branding. Obviously, when dealing with something as perverse as the human sex drive, aversion therapy is even more tricky. And not generally recommended unless the behavior to be extinguished is a danger to oneself or others. Absolutely not recommended for homosexuality by any reputable psychotherapist today, but certainly used by disreputable ones, and certainly recommended in the past by the reputable ones. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/15 "2008-09-25T11:16:12Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > I can’t seem to find a specific site atm, but wanted to mentioned ‘treatment’ for homosexuality is a violation of ethics of the American Psychological Association. Individual’s who practice these techniques are usually not licensed or are at risk of losing their license for doing do. > > So there are no approved procedures. It’s whatever some quack feels like trying. So what are gay people supposed to do that don’t want to be gay? Maybe it would actually be beneficial for the Association to change their practices? Right now it looks kind of like illegal abortions prior to Roe v Wade… back alley practitioners with no ability to properly network and take advantage of new, shared techniques, etc. I’m not suggesting that gayness can necessarily be cured, but people that are gay that don’t want to live gay certainly have the right to some type of sanctioned, non-religious-based support in doing so, don’t they? Standard practices, accepted techniques, some degree of accountability in the field? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/16 "2008-09-25T11:41:43Z")
From my understanding, such “cures” range from [emotionally tramautizing](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/aug/26/gayrights.usa)people until they convince themselves they are straight ( or say they do ), until they revert; grotesque medical treatments like what happened to Alan Turing, or out and out torture. Which is why so often they are performed out of the country. > [@Balthisar](#): > > So what are gay people supposed to do that don’t want to be gay? Realize that they are pretty much screwed, or wrong in not wanting to be gay. Those are their options. There IS no “cure” for being gay, any more than there is a “cure” for being straight. > [@Balthisar](#): > > Maybe it would actually be beneficial for the Association to change their practices? Right now it looks kind of like illegal abortions prior to Roe v Wade… back alley practitioners with no ability to properly network and take advantage of new, shared techniques, etc. Not even close. For one thing, abortions actually work. For another, there’s a lot less coercion. And it’s typically less traumatic than these “cures”. > [@Balthisar](#): > > I’m not suggesting that gayness can necessarily be cured, but people that are gay that don’t want to live gay certainly have the right to some type of sanctioned, non-religious-based support in doing so, don’t they? Standard practices, accepted techniques, some degree of accountability in the field? No, because it’s pure garbage. “Accountability” means banning it, because it’s both traumatic and doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/17 "2008-09-25T11:50:31Z")
Damn. I was hoping that the answer would be “provide unlimited nubile women for the gay guy to have sex with.” Then I was going to pretend to be gay and enroll in therapy. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/18 "2008-09-25T11:52:55Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I’m not suggesting that gayness can necessarily be cured, but people that are gay that don’t want to live gay certainly have the right to some type of sanctioned, non-religious-based support in doing so, don’t they? Standard practices, accepted techniques, some degree of accountability in the field? Why? I’m straight - do I have a “right” to therapy that will make me gay, if I so choose? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/19 "2008-09-25T13:01:13Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > So what are gay people supposed to do that don’t want to be gay? Maybe it would actually be beneficial for the Association to change their practices? Right now it looks kind of like illegal abortions prior to Roe v Wade… back alley practitioners with no ability to properly network and take advantage of new, shared techniques, etc. > > I’m not suggesting that gayness can necessarily be cured, but people that are gay that don’t want to live gay certainly have the right to some type of sanctioned, non-religious-based support in doing so, don’t they? Standard practices, accepted techniques, some degree of accountability in the field? Current science suggests that sexual orientation can not be changed. Research suggests that attempting to do so can be psychologically damaging. So professionals are not allowed to take part in practices that can not be effective and may be damaging. Research continues to go forward on both sides if science can show that sexuality can be changed the APA would probably be willing to change there position. Until then they aren’t allowing doctors to use walk in patients as test subjects without any oversight. There may be controlled studies where doctors may attempt to change sexual orientation much like there are studies where control subjects are subjected to new drugs that may not prove to be safe. The option for gay people that don’t want to be gay is what its always been lie to yourself and everyone around you and pretend to be straight or accept your gay and move on. There are professionals that can teach people to lie. Currently there is no requirement for con-men to be licensed. The abortion analogy does not stand up here. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098/20 "2008-09-25T13:10:03Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I don’t think there are any groups that would find homosexuality to be a problem without the religious overlay, so I think all they really have going for them is prayer. And I suppose the “afflicted” party would have to be a believer on some level, as well. I don’t know any atheists who look at it as a trait that should be corrected. Look to the Communist Party-headed régimes in the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, and in modern-day China and North Korea. Homosexuality was/is illegal there, though the governments were/are officially atheist. Even the Western Communist Parties which allied themselves with the CPSU, including those in the United States and Canada, long held homosexuality to be deviant social behaviour caused by capitalism. No doubt some of their successors still do. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-specific-procedure-for-anti-gay-therapy/465098.md?page=2)