# what's the state of the art in countering military UAVs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 21, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373 "2011-10-21T17:14:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/1 "2011-10-21T17:14:14Z")
what would Iranian or Chinese militaries do to counter American UAVs? Does American military itself have a standard counter to this technology? ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/2 "2011-10-21T17:30:26Z")
UAV’s are just unmanned planes. Any surface-to-air weapons system would work against them as well as they do against manned aircraft. In fact, shooting down a Predator is probably easier than shooting down (say) an F-16. It is almost as big as an F-16 and much less maneuverable and there is an inevitable non-zero lag time between the aircraft and the remote pilot. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/3 "2011-10-21T17:36:34Z")
According to a Popular Mechanics article I read, you shoot down a UAV the same way you shoot down anything else that flies. You either shoot it with bullets or you hit it with a missile.I’ve read elsewhere that Israel shot down a Hezbollah UAV with a missile, so that’s definitely been done in the real world. As for American technologies, Boeing has announced that it had managed to shoot one down with a laser. That said, no anti-UAV countermeasures have been deployed out to the field because the U.S. hasn’t yet encountered a significant UAV threat from anyone else (at least according to the articles I’ve read). Link to the Popular Mechanics article: > **[Killer Lasers Work, but Are They the Best Defense Against UAVs?](https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a12250/4302301/)** > > Boeing has announced that its Laser Avenger system, a modified version of the company's existing Avenger air defense weapon, had shot down an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) with a one-kilowatt laser. On the other hand, the Air Force has admitted that there are classified stealth UAVs, though they aren’t giving out many details about them. There may be classified countermeasures out there that we aren’t aware of as well. ---
**Author:** ![Lips\_Obsession](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bbce88/32.png) [@Lips\_Obsession](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lips_Obsession)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/4 "2011-10-21T18:34:37Z")
Are there any major “opponents” of the USA who use UAVs widely? I was surprised to see above someone saying Israel had shot down a Hezbollah UAV. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/5 "2011-10-21T18:36:13Z")
The problem with questions like these, from a practical standpoint, is that we aren’t fighting the Cold War anymore. We’re not going up against anyone who is even on a rough technological and industrial parity with us. We’re going up against people in militias who are lucky to have 30-year-old missile technology and commodity personal computers. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/6 "2011-10-21T18:52:49Z")
> [@Lips\_Obsession](#): > > Are there any major “opponents” of the USA who use UAVs widely? I was surprised to see above someone saying Israel had shot down a Hezbollah UAV. Pretty much everyone has some kind of UAV right now. Some are smaller and others larger, some are more advanced than others, but this is not exotic technology. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/7 "2011-10-21T19:19:11Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > The problem with questions like these, from a practical standpoint, is that we aren’t fighting the Cold War anymore. We’re not going up against anyone who is even on a rough technological and industrial parity with us. We’re going up against people in militias who are lucky to have 30-year-old missile technology and commodity personal computers. not sure who are these **we** you are talking about, but I do think that the Chinese military would be interested in this topic. If China does good enough progress with these gadgets or else if America has a big enough falling out with Europe, perhaps the Pentagon will start caring as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/8 "2011-10-21T19:26:08Z")
> [@](#): > > If China does good enough progress with these gadgets or else if America has a big enough falling out with Europe, perhaps the Pentagon will start caring as well. Huh? China, the US, France, Russia, and every other country knows how to deal with UAVs. Shoot them down with the large variety of weapons that are also adept at dealing with airplanes, helicopters, airships, blimps, autogyros, and any other flying contraption you can think of. One doesn’t need a new weapon to counter UAVs, it’s pretty much the same concept as attacking any other air vehicle: find it and put holes in it. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/9 "2011-10-21T20:01:00Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Pretty much everyone has some kind of UAV right now. Some are smaller and others larger, some are more advanced than others, but this is not exotic technology. I am related to someone who was working on these in the late 70’s-early 80’s > **[Lockheed MQM-105 Aquila](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MQM-105_Aquila)** > > The Lockheed MQM-105 Aquila (Eagle) was the first small battlefield drone developed in the United States during the 1970s to act as a target designator for the US Army. > The modern history of the Army's battlefield drone efforts began in 1972, when DARPA began the Remotely Piloted Aerial Observation/Designation System program which included PRAIRIE, Calare, and Aequare. The program was conceptualized in January 1973 in the joint U.S. Army and DARPA-funded project called RPAODS (Remotely Piloted A... So I am sure there are a variety of similar techs out there that have been around for 20+ years that can easily be aquired by 3rd world powers ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/10 "2011-10-21T20:17:00Z")
There is also a virus infecting some of the computers that control the drones which might suggest that other nations are exploring creative options wrt drones. [http://articles.cnn.com/2011-10-10/us/us\_drone-program-virus\_1\_computer-virus-drones-uavs?\_s=PM:US](http://articles.cnn.com/2011-10-10/us/us_drone-program-virus_1_computer-virus-drones-uavs?_s=PM:US) ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/11 "2011-10-21T22:02:07Z")
Well, sure, if you wanted to get creative you could use a virus to infect the controller’s terminals or jam the satellite communications between controller and UAV, but those would only be tactics if you wanted to attack with plausible deniability. Otherwise, use the SAMs, guns, or whatever else strikes your fancy you might use on a manned aerial vehicle. The OP seems to be laboring under the impression that being unmanned means there’s something magical that makes them hard to detect or to shoot down. [There isn’t.](http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=42362) ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/12 "2011-10-21T22:52:27Z")
do I understand correctly that the UAVs under discussion here are all pretty big, comparable to the size of a helicopter or small airplane? Do they have smaller, cheaper machines for tactical support of armor or motorized infantry? Will the opposing side have to keep lots of anti-UAV missiles on all of its vehicles to be able to defend itself during maneuver warfare? Or can small UAVs be suppressed by the air force that has “air superiority” in the area? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/13 "2011-10-21T23:23:36Z")
There are UAVs of every size imaginable. The Raven (heh) UAV is widely used by the US Army, and weighs about 5 pounds and would usually fly under 1,000 feet. A Global Hawk, used by the Air Force, has a wingspan of 115 feet and flies at 60,000 feet. And, of course, there’s lots of UAVs in between. There are no “anti-UAV” missiles. Something like the Raven is vulnerable to small arms if it is spotted; a Global Hawk is a sitting duck for a modern surface to air missile. A larger UAV is mincemeat for an enemy aircraft, small UAVs probably fly too low and slow to be efficiently targeted by missiles or aircraft. UAVs have no means of self defense, even though there have been ideas to put an air to air missile on a Predator. They have no missile warning sensors, they don’t carry chaff or flares to fool incoming missiles, it is currently totally unrealistic to expect them to maneuver to avoid threats. UAVs are slow, boring, efficient, defenseless, usually cheap aircraft that are hosts for high-tech sensors. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/14 "2011-10-21T23:40:00Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > do I understand correctly that the UAVs under discussion here are all pretty big, comparable to the size of a helicopter or small airplane? Do they have smaller, cheaper machines for tactical support of armor or motorized infantry? Will the opposing side have to keep lots of anti-UAV missiles on all of its vehicles to be able to defend itself during maneuver warfare? Or can small UAVs be suppressed by the air force that has “air superiority” in the area? Smaller, cheaper UAVs do exist but they are pretty good at falling out of the sky on their own. So there is no reason for the enemy to put any effort into doing what a small breeze is going to take care of anyway. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/15 "2011-10-22T00:10:45Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > do I understand correctly that the UAVs under discussion here are all pretty big, comparable to the size of a helicopter or small airplane? Do they have smaller, cheaper machines for tactical support of armor or motorized infantry? Will the opposing side have to keep lots of anti-UAV missiles on all of its vehicles to be able to defend itself during maneuver warfare? Or can small UAVs be suppressed by the air force that has “air superiority” in the area? The one I linked is like 300 pounds with a 24 hp prop engine. They also had very little metal in them, the idea being to minimize radar return. It carred laser target designators for guiding bombs, missles, artillery, etc. They are not easy to intercept because they are small, quiet, and appropriately painted to be difficult to spot. Once spotted anything that hits it is probably going to turn it into a lawn dart. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/16 "2011-10-22T02:37:44Z")
Uh huh. Good luck trying to detect, or hit, [THIS THING](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8ZbtZqH6Io). ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/17 "2011-10-22T03:12:33Z")
israel has a pretty good line-up of drones, smart bombs and small robots. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/18 "2011-10-22T04:28:19Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > Uh huh. Good luck trying to detect, or hit, [THIS THING](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8ZbtZqH6Io). That’s the one you use the oversized flyswatter on. Or… a shotgun would do nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/19 "2011-10-22T09:49:35Z")
Um…biplane. With machine guns. Yup. That’ll do it. ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373/20 "2011-10-23T23:55:02Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Um…biplane. > > With machine guns. > > Yup. That’ll do it. Hell a biplane where the rear gunner has a .303 rifle would do it 😃 (OK maybe not against the Global Hawk, but only because I doubt a Sopwith Camel could get to 60,000 feet 😛 ) A lot of people don’t seem to realise that UAV’s are only really effective where you have complete air superiority, and your opponents ground forces have negligible SAM capabilities. Lacking those two factors, and you’re going to be using up a LOT of UAV’s. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-state-of-the-art-in-countering-military-uavs/600373.md?page=2)