Is signing the card public or private? If it’s public, how do people propose to deal with the issues of peer pressure and harassment inherent in what’s essentially a public ballot?
Not really public, but not privatte. The union is given a signed pledge card, (and signing the pledge card is not joining the union as earlier implied). If the union gets enough signed pledge cards it can petition the NLRB to hold an election. At the time of petitioning the NLRB the union will have to show the signed cards. The NLRB will then notify the employer of the petition and the names of on the signed cards. At this time the employeer will know who signed and through meetings with both the union and meetings with the employeer the rest of the employees will find out who signed and who did not. And between that time and the election peer pressure will begin and harassement will begin, each side pressing to change votes both ways. The way it is dealt with it by some sides is lies and distortion of facts. When that fails threats. The best counter is education.
I’m pretty sure that’s true. If you sign the card it doesn’t make you a union member. Once the union is recognized, you are given the option to join.
Of course if it’s an agency or closed shop, you’ll be required to join or pay an agency fee.
OK, so when you said "I have seen 100% of employees sign cards . . . " you were not telling the truth. Thanks for clearing that up.
May be a bad choice of words and the use of “see”. I have heard of cases where 100% of the employees have signed cards. I have no reason for doubting my brother’s word.
Sorry if I confused you by using the word “seen” improperly when I should have used the word Known. That does not make me a lier, just someone who does not use his words exactly.
I believe you ment a union shop. A closed shop is against NLRB regulations.
Wouldn’t secret balloting avoid abuses by both sides?
I negotiated my own pay rate, and it was made clear to me that the union would not represent me unless I was a member.
Nitpick: closed shops are a violation of federal statute (specifically, the National Labor Relations Act as amended by the Taft-Hartley Act), not NLRB regulations.
yes. A secret ballot is the foundation of any voting system and if this goes to court I expect this to be the outcome.
Secret ballots, while commonplace, are not “the foundation of any voting system”. The citizen legislature of Ancient Greece used an open ballot system, in which citizens were expected to defend their votes- just as legislatures do today.
Indeed, many US states used open ballots at the time of the ratification of the Constitution, and a number retained them until the turn of the century. You can still cast an open ballot in West Virginia, if you want to.
ETA: John Stuart Mill was one who absolutely opposed secret balloting, seeing it as the antithesis of democracy.
The abuses come between the time that the employees sigh the pledge cards and the election. And if the employeer has good lawyers they can delay the election some times up to two years. That is the poiont of the legislation, if a majority of the employees sign pledge cards then is an election really necessary at that time.
Oh baloney. We would never tolerate open voting in an election.
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:28, topic:567694”]
I negotiated my own pay rate, and it was made clear to me that the union would not represent me unless I was a member.
[/QUOTE]
And you were OK with that. A lot of employeers will work you over 40 a week and not pay you OT pay if you let them. Most business agents will not repersent a non member if they can get away with it. And if your employeer pays you less or more because you are a non member they are violating the law. If you let them get away with it then don’t blame them.
Sorry, that’s nonsense. I’ve been intimidated by unions trying to get me to sign including blocking me from leaving work and taking down my car’s license number.
It needs to be private so both company and union are prevented from knowing how someone voted.
Good nitpick.
But what do you do about the time between the petition for the election and the election? You do have legal recorse for someone blocking you leaving work.
A number of years ago I told a business agent (I assume he was an agent) no I would not sign and asked for his name and address. Then walked away.
I was also part of a law suit against a employee organization that was part of the AFL-CIO.
time limits can be addressed.
They have not in over 50 years. And infact companies can afford and are using better lawyers to get longer delays.
Really? what happened 50 years ago? Unions and Businesses have been at odds with each other from day one.
Aside from that, nothing you’ve said negates a presumption of privacy when voting. It protects the individual from both business and union intimidation.