# Whats the Straight Dope on Chiropractors? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 23, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352 "2009-12-23T19:05:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![bluezooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@bluezooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluezooky)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/61 "2009-12-24T23:01:27Z")
> [@MrSquishy](#): > > I don’t think anybody has mentioned the danger of stroke from neck manipulation yet: > > [Chiropractic's Dirty Secret: Neck Manipulation and Strokes | Quackwatch](http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chirostroke.html) Yep tilling your neck back is dangerous even a friend who’s a hairdresser has seen a few people knocked out tilting their head back in the wash basin, no doubt a percentage have gone away and had a stroke, maybe neck braces should be compulsory for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/62 "2009-12-25T01:14:26Z")
> [@bluezooky](#): > > Yep tilling your neck back is dangerous even a friend who’s a hairdresser has seen a few people knocked out tilting their head back in the wash basin, no doubt a percentage have gone away and had a stroke, maybe neck braces should be compulsory for everyone. Neckbraces, helmets and wheelchairs. Just to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/63 "2009-12-25T01:16:27Z")
**Qagdop** Thanks for the info. And it’s good to know the info on the neck cracking stuff. I think I’ll discontinue the neck cracking with my chiro. It doesn’t really make be too comfortable as it is. My chiro deals with spinal issues in terms of postural alignment. That’s pretty much it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/64 "2009-12-25T02:41:18Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > **IF** you find one who does short-term manipulation to treat musculo-skeletal complaints only, and not one who adjusts your spine 3 x a week for the rest of your life to prevent your tendency towards liver cancer from coming to fruition, then said chiro is about as effective in giving short-term relief for back pain as physical therapy or medications, and maybe a bit better than just resting the back on your own. . Right. They are very good as fixing moderate back pain. There have been scientific studies that verify this. Now sure, being in pain will stress you ans stress can make you sick. Thus, _in a way_, being free of back pain will help your overall health. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/65 "2009-12-25T02:47:04Z")
That’s not how they sell it - the chiropractics that follow D.D. Palmer (the original creator of chiropractic) believe that the health improvements come from the realigning of the body’s life force/chi/whatever you want to call vitalism, and so it goes beyond pain relief. They think major diseases are caused by an imbalance in your life energy and that it can be balanced by manipulation. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/66 "2009-12-25T03:15:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Right. They are very good as fixing moderate back pain. There have been scientific studies that verify this. We need to be careful when supporters of chiropractic (or, for that matter, any kind of “alternative medicine”) boast of scientific studies that support them. All too often the studies are small or poorly conducted. [A recent review](http://www.crd.york.ac.uk/CRDWeb/ShowRecord.asp?View=Full&ID=12004008320) of randomized controlled trials of chiropractic manipulation for back pain (acute and chronic) found that chiropractic did _not_ demonstrate efficacy based on the evidence. Mayo Clinic has [this to say](http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/back-pain/SA00080) about chiropractic manipulation for acute back pain: _“Clinical trials indicate that chiropractic care is as safe and effective as conventional treatments — which may include pain medication, rest or exercise. But that may not be saying much. Low back pain typically improves within a matter of weeks, even for people who seek no treatment at all.”_ There are no magic bullets out there for “curing” back pain and other types of musculoskeletal pain. Some people may find relief through physical therapy, others through massage, some via exercise, painkilling medications and for some, through chiropractic treatment. Chiropractic does not stand out as superior to the other therapies based on good evidence obtained through quality clinical trials. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/67 "2009-12-25T04:21:14Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Mayo Clinic has [this to say](http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/back-pain/SA00080) about chiropractic manipulation for acute back pain: > > _“Clinical trials indicate that chiropractic care is as safe and effective as conventional treatments — which may include pain medication, **rest** \*\*(!)\*\*or exercise. But that may not be saying much. Low back pain typically improves within a matter of weeks, even for people who seek no treatment at all.”_…Chiropractic does not stand out as superior to the other therapies based on good evidence obtained through quality clinical trials. In other words, according to the Mayo Clinic, clinical trials show that chiropractic is about as effective is doing NOTHING. Not a great advertisement, I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![andy1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@andy1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andy1)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/68 "2009-12-26T19:28:15Z")
My parents are a scientist and a doctor. My grandpa and several cousins were professors and a psychiatrist. None of them agree with chiropractors. I hear exercise is good for a bad back, and it is good for mine. But every friend I have goes to one, and swears by them, although they always have to go back. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/69 "2009-12-26T20:59:08Z")
A guy at work had a bulging disc and was out for half a year. Doctors diagnosed him, but chiropractors treated him. He went from back surgery candidate to ‘I’m fine!’, and has stayed fine. Seemed to work for him. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/70 "2009-12-26T21:13:46Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > A guy at work had a bulging disc and was out for half a year. Doctors diagnosed him, but chiropractors treated him. He went from back surgery candidate to ‘I’m fine!’, and has stayed fine. Seemed to work for him. That’s what’s known as an ‘anecdotal’ case. It does not qualify as evidence, as we can’t compare them to all the folks that had the same problem, sought help from a physical therapist and got better/worse/no change in the same time frame, or took meds, and got better/worse/no change in the same time frame, or did nothing, and and did better/worse/no change in the same time frame. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/71 "2009-12-26T21:43:29Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > A guy at work had a bulging disc and was out for half a year. Doctors diagnosed him, but chiropractors treated him. He went from back surgery candidate to ‘I’m fine!’, and has stayed fine. Seemed to work for him. Keep in mind that back in the day, a common treatment for measles was to rub the patient’s skin with paper that had red dots drawn on it. And, amazingly enough, many of those people got better! Would you try that if your own child came down with the disease? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/72 "2009-12-26T23:54:35Z")
I regret not noticing this thread earlier. But, as a Johnny-come-lately, I wanted to note another consideration concerning chiropractic manipulation (at least with respect to low back pain). I can do no better than to paraphrase the last two sentences of the abstract to [this article which appeared in the New England Journal of Medicine](http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/339/15/1021): > [@New England Journal](#): > > For patients with low back pain, . . . chiropractic manipulation . . . (produced) only marginally better outcomes than those (experienced by patients who simply) receiv(ed) the minimal intervention of an educational booklet. Whether the limited benefits of (this treatment) are worth the additional costs is open to question In the study cited, costs for chiropractic treatment, while not huge ($429), were almost triple that of those who only get the educational booklet ($153) ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/73 "2009-12-27T19:19:31Z")
**Qadgop** , **CC** , you’re right you know. Anecdotes are the kind of info I have about chiropractors. Other people seem to be in the same boat. So… maybe there is something there. I hear mostly good things, and the bit about causing strokes is new to me. There is a subtext of quack and rip-off anecdotes though. Some of the concepts get panned, but has any study concluded that the whole of chiropractic is at best useless, at worst harmful; or all a charlatan’s scam, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/74 "2009-12-27T19:43:47Z")
The questions around chiropractic remind me of skepticism of [Qigong](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qigong): > [@](#): > > Much of the criticism of qigong involves its claimed method of operation. Both traditional Chinese and Western medicine practitioners have little argument with the notion that qigong can improve and in many cases maintain health by encouraging movement, increasing range of motion, and improving joint flexibility and resilience, and have mental benefits through the calm exercise, however there are some concerns about adverse effects that have been observed in users (Xu, 1994). When it is asserted that qigong derives its benefits from qi acting as a kind of “biological plasma” that cannot be detected by current scientific instruments, some practitioners[who?] react skeptically and declare qi as a pseudoscientific and vitalism concept,[citation needed] though others consider it as a philosophy rather than a physical force.[citation needed] > > Association of qigong with practices involving spirit possession have added to establishment criticism. Some experts in China[who?] have warned against practices involving the claimed evocation of demons, and practices involving the worship of gods during qigong practice.[citation needed] The popularity of Qigong meant that qigong merchandising, lectures and therapy was lucrative: self-proclaimed masters who claimed “Extraordinary powers”, including the ability to cure AIDS, would charge high fees for lectures and therapies. Some so-called masters would diagnose non-existent ailments only to propose cures.[10] Critics, who had been silenced in 1985 pursuant to the ‘No criticisms’ policy, reacted to the rise of claims of Extraordinary Powers once again brought out the sceptics starting in 1988; Science and Technology Daily invited the American Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP) and posted a reward to any who proved the existence of Extraordinary Powers.[10] I think this is interesting as an example of an anecdotal critical narrative. Notice that most of the criticisms are followed by ‘who?’ and ‘citation needed’. Maybe that is shorthand for ‘putting words in someone’s mouth’? ---
**Author:** ![InterestedObserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@InterestedObserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InterestedObserver)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/75 "2009-12-27T21:46:25Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’ll point out that not so long ago in my area of law chiropractors were specifically excluded from acceptible sources of medical evidence. That changed within the past 2 decades. My understanding was that there was considerable lobbying by chiros and concentrated efforts on a number of fronts to gain them access to hospitals, insurance coverage, and the like. If i get around to it, I’ll try to dig up one of the significant decisions by the 7th Cir. that I recall gave a good description of the history of chiro, and ended up finding that it was not useless (at least not as a matter of law). A decent summation: > **[The world's top new source on natural health - NaturalNews.com](https://www.naturalnews.com/008845_the_AMA_medicine_cancer.html)** > > The world's top new source on natural health - NaturalNews.com "In When Healing Becomes and Crime, Kenny Ausubel writes, “For over 12 years and with the full knowledge and support of their executive officers, the AMA paid the salaries and expenses for a team of more than a dozen medical doctors, lawyers and support staff for the expressed purpose of conspiring (overtly and covertly) with others in medicine to first contain, and eventually, destroy the profession of chiropractic in the United States and elsewhere.” This was not speculation. The actions taken by the U.S. Court of Appeals 7th circuit support Ausubel’s accusation. In 1990, chiropractic doctors Chester A. Wilk, James W. Bryden, Patricia B. Arthur and Michael D. Pedigo won a landmark antitrust lawsuit against the AMA. The court ruled that the AMA had violated the Sherman Act by “conducting an illegal boycott in restraint of the trade directed at chiropractors generally, and at the four plaintiffs in particular.” This 1990 verdict against the AMA followed three other antitrust cases against the association in 1978, 1980 and 1986, all of which were settled. " Of course, this has no bearing on whether chiropractic is or is not effective, but the AMA has engaged in similar campaigns against other “alternative” health care options, including midwifery, which lend some weight to the idea that their primary interest has more to do with protecting their monopoly on health care than with legitimate concerns for the public welfare. The medical profession has a record going back hundreds of years of systematically defaming and destroying its competition (who at the time were often the women who delivered the babies and treated their neighbors with herbal remedies…the “witches” who were slandered as baby killers and poisoners) I have never used a chiropractor myself, but my late husband got regular adjustments to keep his back aligned which he found very helpful. (he was tall and did lots of bending and twisting in his work as a printer) Our family doc for many years was an MD, a Naturopath, AND a chiropractor. My view is that some approaches work best for certain things and others best for others. For back pain due to mis-alignment or strain, manipulation is likely superior to drugs or surgery (the medical approach). For most minor or chronic illnesses or injuries, a non-medical approach is usually best. For serious injury or infection, (broken bones, surgical intervention) medical is where it’s at. The problem, imo, is that medical science, which is simply ONE of MANY forms of healing, seeks to eliminate all the others. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/76 "2009-12-27T22:36:24Z")
Sorry, I cannot afford a three-time a week visit. And even if I _could_ afford it, I _still_ would not go. Speaking as a layman (patient), I would much rather place my trust (even if he is an intern) in someone who specializes in bone structure and its abnormalities. Q ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/77 "2009-12-28T00:01:27Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > A guy at work had a bulging disc and was out for half a year. Doctors diagnosed him, but chiropractors treated him. He went from back surgery candidate to ‘I’m fine!’, and has stayed fine. Seemed to work for him. Why do you say ‘seemed to work for him’? This conclusion does not follow at all from the facts as stated. You may want to look up the ‘Post hoc ergo prompter hoc’ fallacy, or simply look at some of the comments offered in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/78 "2009-12-28T03:39:43Z")
> [@ianzin](#): > > Why do you say ‘seemed to work for him’? This conclusion does not follow at all from the facts as stated. You may want to look up the ‘Post hoc ergo prompter hoc’ fallacy, or simply look at some of the comments offered in this thread. Of course. We know his bulging disc is in remission. We know this isn’t because of drugs or surgery, because those weren’t treatments. We know that chiropractic was the treatment (unless you would also like to count the perfectly admissible ‘taking some time off’). We don’t know if chiropractic is the cause of the remission. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/79 "2009-12-28T18:13:53Z")
I go see my chiro when my back hurts to much to ignore or live with. I got better long term results when my regular MD sent me to a Physical Therapist. The PT taught me stretches and exercises to help my back keep itself in line. She taught me how to lose my bursitis, too. My brother-in-law had a different take on chiros. When he threw his back out, he asked around to find out what to do. Four people gave him the same advice, and he tried it. Later, he told me, “I just don’t know, Nott. I been goin’ to choir practice ever’ Wednesday night, over to the Methodist church, for three months, and my back ain’t no better.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352/80 "2009-12-28T18:22:44Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’ve heard there’s a 65/35 split between total quack chiros and at least mostly non-quack ones… but I can’t remember which side was which. That’s weird. I’ve heard that it’s just the opposite. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-chiropractors/522352.md?page=5)