# What's the Straight Dope on 'fracking'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 21, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084 "2011-09-21T17:00:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/21 "2012-09-22T02:02:53Z")
I believe the earthquakes in Greenbrier, Arkansas have ceased since fracking has been forbidden. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/22 "2012-09-22T03:48:49Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > \*\*lieu’s \*\*understanding is similar to mine: When done with an eye to minimizing environmental impact, fracking has minimal environmental impact. When done with an eye to maximum extraction and rapid development, there are risks involved to adjacent aquifers. > > Strikingly similar, in my way of thinking, to strip mining. Around my hometown, you can tell when they started coal mining in any given area by the current condition of the land–even after the mine’s been closed and replanted to the current environmental standards, you can still tell the difference in mines that were operated before those standards were put in place vs. ones started after. The difference between fracking and strip mining is that one occurs on the surface, the other 2+ miles underground. Otherwise, it’s just the same… 😕 [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/VY34PQUiwOQ/hqdefault.jpg "Animation of Hydraulic Fracturing (fracking)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY34PQUiwOQ) Above is a video, produced by Marathon Oil, explaining the fracking process. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/23 "2012-09-22T03:51:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > They did that straight? Man, I’d have to be _severely_ impaired… [http://www.energyfromshale.org/sites/default/files/Typical-Shale-Fracturing-Mixture-Makeup.pdf](http://www.energyfromshale.org/sites/default/files/Typical-Shale-Fracturing-Mixture-Makeup.pdf) 90% water, 9.5% sand, .5% other chemicals, including sodium chloride ethylene glycol borate salts and others ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/24 "2012-09-22T03:57:40Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I believe the earthquakes in Greenbrier, Arkansas have ceased since fracking has been forbidden. [Not at all](http://folkworm.ceri.memphis.edu/recenteqs/Quakes/quakes0.html). Last earthquake there (a 3.3) was just over a month ago. In addition, the city has experienced [“swarms” of earthquakes before](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enola_earthquake_swarm), the most famous being in 1982. Occams razor suggests that the simplest solution is that the swarm of earthquakes is a naturally occurring phenomenon. These swarms have occurred 3 times in thirty years, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/25 "2012-09-22T05:56:19Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Occams razor suggests that the simplest solution is that the swarm of earthquakes is a naturally occurring phenomenon. These swarms have occurred 3 times in thirty years, after all. True, that doesn’t mean we should encourage them though. 😉 I’m still skeptical of fracking as I’m not at all certain our understanding of geology and tectonics is fully complete enough to begin messing around like this. There are plenty of nasty toxic things that occur naturally underground that would do us considerable harm if they seeped upward. ---
**Author:** ![nion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@nion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nion)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/26 "2012-09-22T06:34:12Z")
It’s possible I am thinking of something else, but all the same… I’ve seen a video clip of a man essentially lighting his tap water on fire as it poured from the faucet. As best I can recall (it’s been at least a couple years now) it was attributed to the effects of fracking. The idea being that natural gas was mixing with groundwater or some such. Does anybody know anything about that? ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/27 "2012-09-22T06:37:39Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I saw it too, and if even half of the stuff he cited is true what gas companies are doing is diabolical. There is a debunking response here from the oil and gas industry (PDF): > **[Debunking-Gasland.pdf](https://www.energyindepth.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Debunking-Gasland.pdf)** > > 135.49 KB I haven’t seen the film Gasland so I’ll refrain from making any comment on it. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/28 "2012-09-22T06:38:43Z")
> [@nion](#): > > It’s possible I am thinking of something else, but all the same… > > I’ve seen a video clip of a man essentially lighting his tap water on fire as it poured from the faucet. As best I can recall (it’s been at least a couple years now) it was attributed to the effects of fracking. The idea being that natural gas was mixing with groundwater or some such. Does anybody know anything about that? Yes. > [@](#): > > The Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission in 2008 investigated the landowner’s water depicted in GasLand and determined the water was flammable because his water well had been drilled into a naturally-occurring pocket of natural gas. [http://www.naturalgas.org/gasland.asp](http://www.naturalgas.org/gasland.asp) ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/29 "2012-09-22T07:05:25Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > The thing is hydrocarbons collect in formations where impermeable layers of geologically significant size overlay permeable layers of similar sizes. The collection of the hydrocarbons takes place over millions of years. Above that impermeable layer, hydrological characteristics are all affected by the impermeability of the layer. Aquifers are shaped, and directed by the presence of the impermeable layers. > > If you want to make the layer permeable, you frack it. That lets you withdraw the hydrocarbons, and sell them. It used to be way too expensive to do it, but fuel demand, and technology have changed that. The cost is only lapping at the edges of economic viability, and in most formations it is still just a bit too expensive for a major infrastructure investment. This explanation sounds wrong, unless I have misunderstood you. Your first paragraph seems to be addressing conventional gas resources, where the hydrocarbon is trapped under an impermeable layer (often a dome of rock). This is relatively easily extracted by drilling a hole through the dome of rock and inserting a pipe. The impermeable layer is not made permeable by fracking in this case. In deep tight formations, the hydrocarbon is not trapped under an impermeable layer, but within a layer of sand or sedimentary rock. It is this layer that is disrupted by fracking. This is typically way, way deeper than any aquifers, and also way deeper than what is normally referred to as “bedrock”. I should state, by the way, that although I work for an energy company I do not speak for them, and my opinions are my own. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/30 "2012-09-22T10:51:07Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > True, that doesn’t mean we should encourage them though. 😉 I’m still skeptical of fracking as I’m not at all certain our understanding of geology and tectonics is fully complete enough to begin messing around like this. There are plenty of nasty toxic things that occur naturally underground that would do us considerable harm if they seeped upward. Are you against mining? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/31 "2012-09-22T13:29:10Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Are you against mining? 😕 If it threatens to poison a community’s drinking water? Of course. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/32 "2012-09-22T15:15:22Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Are you against mining? 😕 Not entirely, though I don’t support deep mining efforts that require cooling and pressure relieving equipment, etc because they are getting near the bottom of the crust. Even those efforts are somewhat more predictable though since they are primarily vertical shafts. If a geological incident occurred, presumably the magma and other gasses/ substances would take the path of least resistance directly up the shaft. My (unsubstantiated) fear with deep fracking is that we currently don’t understand enough about how things work when there is now a large webwork of fractures running horizontally under the surface. It is plausible that we could create a sort of “mini fault” with this type of operation, which could then spread to outlying areas. OTOH, maybe we could harness the geothermal properties! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/33 "2012-09-22T15:30:29Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > OTOH, maybe we could harness the geothermal properties! This is the other side to consider. Effectively harnessing geothermal energy would be a boon to mankind. It would undoubtedly have downsides, but consider the downsides of the alternative. The natural gas extracted through these methods isn’t spilling into the Gulf of Mexico, and we don’t have to kill people wholesales to maintain access to it. Most of the problems associated with fracking are fixable. There are still unknown problems but like every other energy source there is a balance that has to be found. I think we could at least concentrate on those known problems which mostly result from this being a newly exploited technology that isn’t be sufficiently regulated. ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/34 "2012-09-22T15:39:34Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > This is the other side to consider. Effectively harnessing geothermal energy would be a boon to mankind. It would undoubtedly have downsides, but consider the downsides of the alternative. The natural gas extracted through these methods isn’t spilling into the Gulf of Mexico, and we don’t have to kill people wholesales to maintain access to it. Most of the problems associated with fracking are fixable. There are still unknown problems but like every other energy source there is a balance that has to be found. I think we could at least concentrate on those known problems which mostly result from this being a newly exploited technology that isn’t be sufficiently regulated. No doubt many of the current problems could be solved. The problem is the rush to get to the gas NOW, before we have the means to do it in a way that assures the safety of the surrounding community. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/35 "2012-09-22T16:07:24Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > There is a debunking response here from the oil and gas industry (PDF): > > [http://www.energyindepth.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Debunking-Gasland.pdf](http://www.energyindepth.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Debunking-Gasland.pdf) > > I haven’t seen the film Gasland so I’ll refrain from making any comment on it. Perhaps there is a more reliable source for debunking the movie than the industry making a profit from it. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/36 "2012-09-22T18:02:13Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > No doubt many of the current problems could be solved. The problem is the rush to get to the gas NOW, before we have the means to do it in a way that assures the safety of the surrounding community. I agree in sort of. I think we have most of the means, but there’s no incentive for the fracking gas companies to do so. Since no serious effort is taken to ensure safety we are well behind in progress in that area. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/37 "2012-09-22T18:49:36Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Not entirely, though I don’t support deep mining efforts that require cooling and pressure relieving equipment, etc because they are getting near the bottom of the crust. Even those efforts are somewhat more predictable though since they are primarily vertical shafts. If a geological incident occurred, presumably the magma and other gasses/ substances would take the path of least resistance directly up the shaft. The world’s deepest mine [is only 2.4 miles deep,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TauTona_Mine) which is quite a ways from the continental crust boundary. No one is “getting near the bottom of the crust” via mining. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/38 "2012-09-22T19:07:32Z")
Or hydraulic fracturing. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084/39 "2012-09-22T20:09:45Z")
I’m not sure why people get all bent out of shape about fracturing that doesn’t occur anywhere near an aquifer. Poorly drilled wells that go through an aquifer? Sure. But that applies to any well, fracking or no. Massive quantities of produced brine? Keep that shit out of the municipal wastewater system, and let’s not inject it into a fault line, mmkay? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-fracking/597084.md?page=1)