# What's the straight dope on J.D. Vance and couches/eyeliner? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 9, 2024, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479 "2024-08-09T15:54:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GailForce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@GailForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GailForce)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/1 "2024-08-09T15:54:01Z")
Recently I’ve read that Vance did not, as some believe, have sexual congress with a piece of furniture, nor does he use eyeliner, as has been claimed by his detractors. Is there a factual basis to either of these claims? Vance’s supporters seem to be denying that he wrote anywhere about the sex stuff, but on the other side, others seem to claim that he did write it but it was deleted before publication–is that accurate? If so, how can it be proven what was and what wasn’t in a deleted draft? Or is the whole thing sheer speculation? As to the eyeliner, his eyes do look funny to me, but I haven’t read any claims specifically that he does apply eye makeup of any kind. Has anyone closely compared photos of his eyes before and after he supposedly started using eyeliner? Or is this simply a rumor or innuendo with no basis in fact? I’m no fan of his, but neither do I want to indulge in spreading rumors with no basis in fact, so anything factual will help straighten me out on either charge. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/2 "2024-08-09T15:56:51Z")
No one thinks that Vance had sex with a couch. But Dems will continue to bring it up (or at least allude to it) because he’s so weird that it certainly seems plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/3 "2024-08-09T15:58:30Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > But Dems will continue to bring it up (or at least allude to it) because he’s so weird that it certainly seems plausible. And he hasn’t denied it. 😉 But honestly, it wouldn’t be _that_ weird if he did it. It would be _very_ weird if he wrote about it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/4 "2024-08-09T16:02:25Z")
> [@GailForce](#): > > others seem to claim that he did write it but it was deleted before publication I haven’t seen that claim, at least not seriously. Dems are just having fun using the “some people are saying” nonsense that Fox News et al have been using to spread misinformation for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/5 "2024-08-09T16:06:18Z")
> [@GailForce](#): > > As to the eyeliner, his eyes do look funny to me, but I haven’t read any claims specifically that he does apply eye makeup of any kind. Has anyone closely compared photos of his eyes before and after he supposedly started using eyeliner? Or is this simply a rumor or innuendo with no basis in fact? Per this article, his wife Usha has explained that those are his eyelashes and it’s natural. > **[Usha Vance Reveals Truth on Claims Hubby Wears Eyeliner](https://www.thedailybeast.com/usha-vance-reveals-truth-on-claims-hubby-jd-vance-wears-eyeliner)** > > His wife, Usha, gave a definitive answer. > “They’re all natural,” his wife, Usha Vance, wrote in a statement to the outlet. “I’ve always been jealous of those lashes.” Slate devoted an entire article on it. > **[I Got “The J.D. Vance” Eye-Makeup Look, and Learned a Few Other Things About...](https://slate.com/life/2024/07/jd-vance-eyeliner-lashes-trump-campaign.html)** > > There’s not a lot that’s enviable about him—but there is this. The consensus seems to be that they are just his eyelashes. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/6 "2024-08-09T16:12:31Z")
I’m pretty sure Vance never had sex with a couch. But two factors have given the story life. First, the Republicans have a history of telling outrageous lies about their opponents. (Remember Pizzagate? Birthers?) So there’s no moral issue about telling outrageous lies back at them. Second, Republicans genuinely have done some outrageous things. The Republicans really did try to overthrow the government and hang people. Kristi Noem really did brag about shooting her own dog. Donald Trump really has bragged about how he could commit rape or murder and talked about his sexual attraction to his own daughter. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/7 "2024-08-09T16:12:37Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > I haven’t seen that claim, at least not seriously. Dems are just having fun using the “some people are saying” nonsense that Fox News et al have been using to spread misinformation for decades. Exactly! No, the couch stuff is not true: > **[No, JD Vance Did Not Say He Had Sex with Couch Cushions](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jd-vance-couch-cushions/)** > > A false online rumor about former U.S. President Donald Trump's running mate, a latex glove and couch cushions spawned a number of jokes and memes. However, the dolphin porn thing has, uh, legs: > **[JD Vance Reposted Image Captioned, 'Woman Gets Violated By Dolphin and Enjoys...](https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/07/29/jd-vance-repost-screenshot-dolphin-porn/)** > > The 2024 election rumors began with a false claim that he wrote about having sex with a couch. _The bolded words “dolphin” and “woman” on the post does indeed indicate that Vance was searching for posts with those words. When typing in a word on the search bar in X, the results always show that word in bold in post captions that come up._ ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/8 "2024-08-09T16:59:10Z")
Forgot what forum this was. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/9 "2024-08-09T17:02:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m pretty sure Vance never had sex with a couch. > > But two factors have given the story life. > > First, the Republicans have a history of telling outrageous lies about their opponents. (Remember Pizzagate? Birthers?) So there’s no moral issue about telling outrageous lies back at them. > > Second, Republicans genuinely have done some outrageous things. The Republicans really did try to overthrow the government and hang people. Kristi Noem really did brag about shooting her own dog. Donald Trump really has bragged about how he could commit rape or murder and talked about his sexual attraction to his own daughter. Third, every time it’s brought up the GOP rages about it. If they had just ignored it, it would’ve died by now. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/10 "2024-08-09T17:09:03Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So there’s no moral issue about telling outrageous lies back at them. Yes there is, and it bothers me that Dems are doing it. And i don’t even care whether someone used a couch while masturbating. That’s barely even unusual for a teenager, especially a boy. But i don’t want the Dems to fall into the hole of inventing stories and being untrustworthy that the Pubs have fallen into. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/11 "2024-08-09T17:31:40Z")
To be clear, it’s not a lie. It’s a joke. When newspapers reported it was fake, it made it worse, because it was now funny that anyone spent time trying to debunk it. There’s a reason why it’s such an innocuous claim. If he had done it, he’d just be like many other guys. The humor was in the idea that he’d actually write about it. But, even if he had, no one would have been hurt. I posted earlier a skepchick article on the use of shotposts to shut down people. > **[JD Vance & the Couch: the Ethics of S\*\*\*posting](https://skepchick.org/2024/07/jd-vance-the-couch-the-ethics-of-sposting/)** > > Today I’d like to discuss the most controversial topic currently plaguing the zeitgeist: did JD Vance have a romantic rendezvous with a piece of furniture? JD Vance is, as you probably all know by … Not saying you have to agree with her, but I do think she makes a good case for why it isn’t the same thing as spreading misinformation. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/12 "2024-08-09T18:37:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So there’s no moral issue about telling outrageous lies back at them. I disagree. Us Dem should not stoop to the GOP tactics- what is nevet? Refusing to certify? Making up fake news that Vance is not qualified? ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/13 "2024-08-09T20:38:59Z")
To me, the most telling part of the story is how quickly it spread. The original joke post quoted page and verse from his memoir, but _nobody bothered to look it up before repeating it_ as fact. Perhaps once it was realized as a joke, the repeats were simply for the humor value, but it spread as taken to be valid. I believe it was Geoffrey Household who said that anyone who’s automatically assumed to be the perpetrator of a practical joke deserves it when they are blamed for something. Perhaps the same applies to the victim - anyone who people automatically believe some untruth about, probably deserves it in some way. The problem is that people take something at face value if it appears truthy, in presentation and content. A similar example is Trump’s “pee tape” allegation. On the say-so of one person with possibly an axe to grind or a client to impress, a joke spreads like wildfire. > [@DrDeth](#): > > I disagree. Us Dem should not stoop to the GOP tactics I agree the Dems should not stoop to disreputable tactics, but when it has degenerated to a joke that everyone(?) knows is untrue, a joke is a joke and it never hurts to play it for a laugh, as Walz did the other day. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/14 "2024-08-09T20:45:46Z")
Yeah, ya know…boys will be boys, 🤔 It’s creepy mudslinging. But still just mudslinging. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/15 "2024-08-09T20:52:34Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > To be clear, it’s not a lie. It’s a joke. When newspapers reported it was fake, it made it worse, because it was now funny that anyone spent time trying to debunk it. And, when one legitimate news site posted “JD Vance did not have sex with a couch”, then removed the story to replace it with “JD Vance did not write about having sex with a couch”, that added to the joke - that their journalistic integrity couldn’t say with 100% accuracy that he had never had sex with a couch, but they could show that he never wrote about having sex with a couch. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/16 "2024-08-09T20:53:37Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Per this article, his wife Usha has explained that those are his eyelashes and it’s natural. Nestor Carbonell always looks like he’s wearing eyeliner as well. He’s actually joked about it in the past. There’s a video out there somewhere of him running late for an interview or something. When the camera goes looking for him, he’s in his dressing room putting eyeliner on. I believe him that he’s not, but, it really, really does look like he (Nestor) is wearing it. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/17 "2024-08-09T20:56:14Z")
> [@GailForce](#): > > Vance’s supporters seem to be denying that he wrote anywhere about the sex stuff, but on the other side, others seem to claim that he did write it but it was deleted before publication–is that accurate? As I understand it, once it was called out to be false (as in, not printed in his book) the same people who were inclined to spread the first rumor/joke then came up with the “no it was in the first printing of his book” rumor/joke to allow it to continue. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/18 "2024-08-09T20:57:06Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Dems are just having fun using the “some people are saying” nonsense that Fox News et al have been using to spread misinformation for decades. Yes, this. No one actually believes it, but it’s utterly hilarious watching them flounder trying to counteract the kind of made up bullshit that they’ve been pedalling for years. So we’re going to keep talking about it. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/19 "2024-08-09T20:58:20Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > There’s a video out there somewhere of him running late for an interview or something. It was a skit that was done for Comic-Con in 2009, for the panel about the show _Lost_. All copies of the video I could find online were bad, this was the best I could find. I’m not sure there’s an “official” video available anywhere (if so I failed in finding it). [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/l-b1s93RDxc/hqdefault.jpg "Comic-Con 2009: Richard Alpert (Nestor Carbonell) from Lost") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-b1s93RDxc) But yeah, he’s another example of another man with naturally dark eyelashes. My WAG is that the practice of wearing eyeliner comes from a history of people trying to imitate that natural feature some people possess. We are so familiar with the practice of wearing eyeliner that when we see someone who has it as a natural feature, it’s assumed that eyeliner was involved. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479/20 "2024-08-09T20:58:29Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > > [@Atamasama](#): > > > > Per this article, his wife Usha has explained that those are his eyelashes and it’s natural. > > Nestor Carbonell always looks like he’s wearing eyeliner as well. He’s actually joked about it in the past. There’s a video out there somewhere of him running late for an interview or something. When the camera goes looking for him, he’s in his dressing room putting eyeliner on. > I believe him that he’s not, but, it really, really does look like he (Nestor) is wearing it. There’s a difference between wearing guyliner and having thick eyelashes. Big difference. This is approaching Billy Joe Armstrong (Green Day) level, and I don’t think Billy Joe would deny it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-j-d-vance-and-couches-eyeliner/1005479.md?page=2)