# What's the Straight Dope on Obama and Ayers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 24, 2008, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967 "2008-09-24T12:18:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/21 "2008-09-24T16:39:30Z")
Ayers is political poison and the Obama camp knows it. Why else would he dismiss his political mentor and long-time co-worker as “just a guy who lives in my neighborhood” and “not someone I exchange ideas with on a regular basis?” This about a guy appointed Obama as CAC’s first chairman in 1995! Why not tell the truth? Why isn’t Obama bragging about his relationship with Ayers? Where is Ayers on the campaign trail if there is nothing to be ashamed of here? After all, Obama kicked off his first Senate campaign in Bill Ayers’ _living room_! Offhand, I can think of only two people who have tried to blow up the Pentagon - Osama bin Laden and Barack Obama’s buddy, Bill Ayers. How many of you have even a passing acquaintance with anyone who’s ever tried to blow up _anything_?! Let’s all remember that Jeremiah Wright was someone that Obama “could no more disown” than he could “disown the entire black community.” He said that about, oh, one week before he utterly “disowned” Wright via a press release. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/22 "2008-09-24T16:42:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > My point is that **leander** made the bare assertion that the article was not accurate. What we seem to have discovered is that, for those parts capable of being established as fact, it is completely accurate. You just don’t like the conclusions. > > Regards, > Shodan Jim has red hair. Sarah has red hair. Therefore, Jim and Sarah are twins. Is that an accurate statement, Shodan? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/23 "2008-09-24T16:43:26Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Are you suggesting that Obama, or anyone else associated with his campaign, ever denied any of the above? What is your point? No point at all. The fact is that Obama is (despite his denials) closely associated with an unrepentant terrorist. You can make of that what you will. The repeated denials from his disciples that this is the case (when it demonstratively is) have passed tiresome and are into amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/24 "2008-09-24T16:50:09Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > No point at all. The fact is that Obama is (despite his denials) closely associated with an unrepentant terrorist. You can make of that what you will. The repeated denials from his disciples that this is the case (when it demonstratively is) have passed tiresome and are into amusing. I ask “Has Obama or anyone associated with his campaign ever denied this”, and you say that’s not the point. Then you say “The repeated denials from his disciples…” Which is it? Back up your assertions that Obama’s disciples have repeatedly denied that he has had associations with Ayers. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/25 "2008-09-24T17:06:54Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Jim has red hair. > Sarah has red hair. > Therefore, Jim and Sarah are twins. > > Is that an accurate statement, Shodan? No, it isn’t. Who associated with the McCain campaign has said that Obama is a terrorist? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/26 "2008-09-24T17:08:02Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > The fact is that Obama is (despite his denials) closely associated with an unrepentant terrorist. [Waitaminnit, now:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama%E2%80%93Ayers_controversy#Interaction_between_Obama_and_Ayers) > [@](#): > > **Interaction between Obama and Ayers** > > Ayers and Dohrn hosted a “meet-and-greet” political meeting for Obama at their home in the Hyde Park section of Chicago, where the Ayers and the Obamas lived. (The meeting has also been called a fundraising event.[7]) It was at this meeting that then State Senator Alice Palmer introduced Barack Obama as her chosen candidate for the 1996 Democratic primary.[8] Although the exact date of the meeting is not known, it was sometime in the second half of 1995, according to Ben Smith, a reporter for The Politico.[4] Chicagoan Maria Warren wrote in 2005 on her Musings & Migraines blog: “When I first met Barack Obama, he was giving a standard, innocuous little talk in the livingroom of those two legends-in-their-own-minds, Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. They were launching him — introducing him to the Hyde Park community as the best thing since sliced bread.”[4] > > Obama served as president of the board of directors for the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a large education-related nonprofit organization that Ayers was instrumental in starting. The board disbursed grants to schools and raised private matching funds while Ayers worked with the operational arm of the effort. Both attended some board meetings in common starting in 1995,[9][10] retreats, and at least one news conference together as the education program started. They continued to attend meetings together during the 1995-2001 period when the program was operating.[10] > > Obama and Ayers served together for three years on the board of the Woods Fund of Chicago, an anti-poverty foundation established in 1941. Obama had joined the nine-member board in 1993, and had attended a dozen of the quarterly meetings together with Ayers in the three years up to 2002, when Obama left his position on the board,[1] which Ayers chaired for two years.[11] Laura S. Washington, chairwoman of the Woods Fund, said the small board had a collegial “friendly but businesslike” atmosphere, and met four times a year for a half-day, mostly to approve grants.[2] The two also appeared together on academic panel discussions, including a 1997 University of Chicago discussion on juvenile justice. They again appeared in 2002 at an academic panel co-sponsored by the Chicago Public Library.[1] One panel discussion in which they both appeared was organized by Obama’s wife, Michelle.[12] Ayers donated $200 to Obama’s 2001 state senate campaign.[13] > > In 2008, a spokesman for the Obama campaign said the last time Obama and Ayers had seen each other was when Obama was biking in the neighborhood in 2007 and crossed paths with Ayers. The spokesman said “The suggestion that Ayers was a political adviser to Obama or someone who shaped his political views is patently false”.[14] How the fuck do you get “closely associated” out of any of that?! ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/27 "2008-09-24T17:12:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, it isn’t. Who associated with the McCain campaign has said that Obama is a terrorist? > > Regards, > Shodan Non sequitor. You were trying to fudge the point that if only facts were presented, then conclusions couldn’t be false. > [@Shodan](#): > > My point is that leander made the bare assertion that the article was not accurate. What we seem to have discovered is that, for those parts capable of being established as fact, it is completely accurate. You just don’t like the conclusions. > > Regards, > Shodan Conclusions can be false, Shodan. They are not just opinions. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/28 "2008-09-24T17:14:35Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Ayers is political poison and the Obama camp knows it. Why else would he dismiss his political mentor and long-time co-worker as “just a guy who lives in my neighborhood” and “not someone I exchange ideas with on a regular basis?” This about a guy appointed Obama as CAC’s first chairman in 1995! Why not tell the truth? > > Why isn’t Obama bragging about his relationship with Ayers? Where is Ayers on the campaign trail if there is nothing to be ashamed of here? After all, Obama kicked off his first Senate campaign in Bill Ayers’ _living room_! > > Offhand, I can think of only two people who have tried to blow up the Pentagon - Osama bin Laden and Barack Obama’s buddy, Bill Ayers. How many of you have even a passing acquaintance with anyone who’s ever tried to blow up _anything_?! Is it your view that Obama seeks to do harm to the United States of America, and he has gone about this by running for President, and once he is inaugurated, he will begin to work for the downfall of the country? If you believe that, then that’s one thing, and at least this makes sense. I think it’s insane, but at least it’s internally consistent. If you do not sincerely believe that Obama wishes to harm the interests of the United States of America, then this is so much dishwater and handwaving. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/29 "2008-09-24T17:14:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How the fuck do you get “closely associated” out of any of that?! Or **Stephe96’s** brilliant claim of “political mentor”? That one is truly reaching. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/30 "2008-09-24T17:19:01Z")
> [@stolichnaya](#): > > once he is inaugurated, he will begin to work for the downfall of the country? Don’t be so skeptical, It worked for W. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/31 "2008-09-24T17:21:13Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Jim has red hair. > Sarah has red hair. > Therefore, Jim and Sarah are twins. > > Is that an accurate statement, Shodan? In point of fact, I do _not_ have red hair. If you start out with erroneous statements, you are bound to come up with an erroneous conclusion, so **Shodan** was trying to determine if the statements were factual or not. **leander’s** statement was a bit fuzzy as to what it was that wasn’t accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/32 "2008-09-24T17:23:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Waitaminnit, now:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama%E2%80%93Ayers_controversy#Interaction_between_Obama_and_Ayers) > > How the fuck do you get “closely associated” out of any of that?! The linked op-ed makes a good case for it. You may not _like_ it, but I haven’t seen anyone touch the facts presented. Obama launched his political career from Ayres’ living room for Christ’s sake. As I said, one can make of it what they will, but downplaying or denying the facts makes one look stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/33 "2008-09-24T17:24:01Z")
Ayres is not a “terrorist.” Terrorists by definition, target _people_. Ayres vandalized some empty rooms in government buildings and always went to great lengths to make sure that no human beings got hurt. The facts are that Obama served on a couple of charity boards with a law abiding neighbor and an English professor who was once a radical (but non-violent) anti-war activist 40 years ago. The leap from that to “terrorist proxy” is asinine and childish…and desperate. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/34 "2008-09-24T17:28:27Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Or **Stephe96’s** brilliant claim of “political mentor”? That one is truly reaching. Please. I will use whatever term you prefer to describe the relationship between Barack Obama and Bill Ayers, the man whose terrorist group, the Weather Underground, according to Wikipedia, “organized a riot in Chicago in 1969 and bombed buildings in the 1970s.” Have _you_ ever stood in the living room of a person who tried to blow up _anything_, let alone the Pentagon? Barack Obama has. But, again, which term would you prefer I use to describe their relationship? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/35 "2008-09-24T17:28:30Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > The linked op-ed makes a good case for it. You may not _like_ it, but I haven’t seen anyone touch the facts presented. Obama launched his political career from Ayres’ living room for Christ’s sake. As I said, one can make of it what they will, but downplaying or denying the facts makes one look stupid. Not denying, but why does downplaying this fact make one look stupid? He launched his political career from an English professor and respected member of the communities living room, and has had little to do with the man and has not involved him in his political career since that one monent 13 years ago. What is your implication, exactly?? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/36 "2008-09-24T17:31:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How the fuck do you get “closely associated” out of any of that?! Probably from the parts where Ayers hosted fund raisers for Obama, got him appointed to the board of directors of his foundation, served with him, served on other boards with him, attended panel discussions with him, held press conferences with him, etc. No doubt, apart from that, they were total strangers. 😃 > [@Lamar Mundane](#): > > Non sequitor. Yes, it was, which is why your argument is so easy to shoot down. Unless you can show where somebody associated with this thread, the article in question, or the McCain campaign is saying that Obama is a terrorist, then your rather feeble comeback about twins is a a strawman. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/37 "2008-09-24T17:32:12Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Please. I will use whatever term you prefer to describe the relationship between Barack Obama and Bill Ayers, the man whose terrorist group, the Weather Underground, according to Wikipedia, “organized a riot in Chicago in 1969 and bombed buildings in the 1970s.” > > Have _you_ ever stood in the living room of a person who tried to blow up _anything_, let alone the Pentagon? Barack Obama has. > > But, again, which term would you prefer I use to describe their relationship? Oh for crying out loud, cut the BS. YOU used the term “politcal mentor”. It was YOUR choice of words and you obviously meant something by it. If you wish to retract that designation then do so. Don’t weasel out of what you said, you pick your own words here. Do you honestly think Ayers was a political mentor or not? Time to own up to your words or admit it was a smear. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/38 "2008-09-24T17:32:53Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Ayres is not a “terrorist.” Terrorists by definition, target _people_. Ayres vandalized some empty rooms in government buildings and always went to great lengths to make sure that no human beings got hurt. > > The facts are that Obama served on a couple of charity boards with a law abiding neighbor and an English professor who was once a radical (but non-violent) anti-war activist 40 years ago. The leap from that to “terrorist proxy” is asinine and childish…and desperate. Nice try, but _bzzzzt_. Again, from the Wikipedia entry: However, according to Mark Rudd, one of the founders of the Weathermen, the group that constructed the bomb that exploded prematurely in Greenwich Village had planned to set it off at a dance in an Army NCO club, which presumably would have had lethal consequences. [1] Their activities have often been characterized as **domestic terrorism** ,[9] including a later description by the FBI.[10] ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/39 "2008-09-24T17:35:04Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Oh for crying out loud, cut the BS. YOU used the term “politcal mentor”. It was YOUR choice of words and you obviously meant something by it. If you wish to retract that designation then do so. Don’t weasel out of what you said, you pick your own words here. > > Do you honestly think Ayers was a political mentor or not? Time to own up to your words or admit it was a smear. Fine. I’m comfortable with ‘political mentor.’ What term are comfortable with? Just out of curiousity? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967/40 "2008-09-24T17:37:50Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Obama launched his political career from Ayres’ living room for Christ’s sake. Do you get ALL your talking points from Sean Hannity? When he was starting out in politics, some people hosted a fundraiser for him at Bill Ayers’ house. So. Fucking. What? How does that make them “close associations?” Are you a close association of everyone whose home you’ve ever attended a party at? Do you think that Barack Obama has anti-American or “terrorist” aspirations? Yes or no. If the answer is no, then you’re admitting this whole thing is a contrived, phony issue. It’sd also not getting any political traction, by the way, no matter how hard the Hannitys of the world try to push it. Frankly, when it comes to unsavory assocaitions, it doesn’t get any more embarrasing than [this](http://thehostess.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/mccain_bush-hug.jpg) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-obama-and-ayers/464967.md?page=3)