# What's The Straight Dope on That Circular Staircase **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 9, 2008, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-that-circular-staircase/459363 "2008-08-09T01:06:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-that-circular-staircase/459363/1 "2008-08-09T01:06:44Z")
in the church in Santa Fe, New Mexico? The sory given out is that an unknown old man cuilt a spiral staircase (to the choir loft), by himself with simple hand tools. Supposedly, the wood used is of a species not native to New Mexico-has this ever been proven? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-that-circular-staircase/459363/2 "2008-08-09T01:14:43Z")
Just to add some clarity, [this is the staircase in question](http://www.lorettochapel.com/staircase.html). ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-that-circular-staircase/459363/3 "2008-08-09T01:17:00Z")
Skeptical Inquirer published an article by Joe Nickell debunking many of the claims about that spiral staircase (I’d read about that several times as a kid growing up in a Catholic school. It was told twice in the Catholic comic book **Treasure Chest**. And I finally got to see it about fifteen years ago when I visited Santa Fe. [http://www.csicop.org/si/9811/i-files.html](http://www.csicop.org/si/9811/i-files.html) ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-that-circular-staircase/459363/4 "2008-08-09T20:05:34Z")
From _Skeptical Inquirer_ Sept./Oct. 2000 (from Proquest): > [@](#): > > Now in an article in the January 2000 New Mexico magazine-“Loretto Staircase Mystery Unravels” by Tamar Stieber-the identity of the enigmatic craftsman has been revealed. Credit for the discovery goes to an “intrepid and highly respected amateur historian” named Mary Jean Cook She learned of a “hermit rancher,” François-Jean “Frenchy” Rochas, who lived in “godforsaken” Dog Canyon, nine miles from Alamogordo. Learning that he had left behind a collection of “sophisticated carpentry tools,” Cook searched for his death notice, which she found in the January 6, 1896, issue of The Santa Fe New Mexican. > > It described Rochas’s murdered body being found at his isolated rock cabin and described him as “favorably known in Santa Fe as an expert worker in wood.” He had built, the brief obituary noted, “the handsome staircase in the Loretto chapel and at St. Vincent sanitarium.” Here’s a mention of apparently the same person [http://www.fws.gov/historicpreservation/publications/pdfs/RegionalReports/Binder1.pdf](http://www.fws.gov/historicpreservation/publications/pdfs/RegionalReports/Binder1.pdf) > [@](#): > > Ironically, years after the last Apache skirmish in Dog Canyon, murder and turmoil along the canyon’s waters would again bring extensive notoriety to the canyon when a man named Frank “Frenchy” Rojas was gunned down. Officially, the coroner’s jury reported that the Frenchman, who had settled the canyon mouth prior to 1886, died of a self-inflicted rifle wound to the chest, on or the day after Christmas 1894. Although Oliver Lee, a Texas cattleman who had settled Dog Canyon a mile or so below Frenchy’s homestead, was suspected by some, no charges were ever filed. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-that-circular-staircase/459363/5 "2008-08-09T20:12:44Z")
Something that was glossed over in the article is that there are 33 stairs (number of years Jesus was alive) and there is no center post. I’ve also heard it kinda bounces when you walk up and down it. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-that-circular-staircase/459363/6 "2008-08-09T20:13:00Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] [this is the staircase in question](http://www.lorettochapel.com/staircase.html). [/QUOTE] from the linked page: > [@](#): > > The staircase has two 360 degree turns and no visible means of support. I strongly suspect it has as much support as any staircase needs: a bottom floor and a top floor. I further suspect that both are extremely visible. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-that-circular-staircase/459363/7 "2008-08-09T20:15:14Z")
[QUOTE=KneadToKnow] from the linked page: I strongly suspect it has as much support as any staircase needs: a bottom floor and a top floor. I further suspect that both are extremely visible. [/QUOTE] There’s also a support bracket behind it (from the perspective of where most people would enter the room). The “mystery” really seems to be a recent and commercial innovation. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-that-circular-staircase/459363/8 "2008-08-09T20:29:16Z")
The snopes take on this. > **[Mysterious Staircase at Loretto Chapel](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/stairway-from-heaven/)** > > Does a stairway at Santa Fe's Loretto Chapel miraculously stand despite having no discernable means of support? ---
**Author:** ![Public\_Animal\_No.9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Public\_Animal\_No.9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Public_Animal_No.9)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2008, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-that-circular-staircase/459363/9 "2008-08-10T13:28:40Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] There’s also a support bracket behind it (from the perspective of where most people would enter the room). The “mystery” really seems to be a recent and commercial innovation. [/QUOTE] The purported mystery was told well before it was a commercial enterprise. I recall visiting the chapel when there was no entry fee, and the story told then is the same as it is now. We were recently in Santa Fe and went to Loretto Chapel, mostly so that I could show my wife some of the places I’d been back in the old days, and the charge to see the staircase was only $2.50. I was surprised for two reasons - first that they’d started charging, and second (given that they were now charging to see the sight) that the fee wasn’t higher than $2.50. If it was an entirely commercial proposition, I would have expected that the fee would have been higher. All in all, I don’t think that the tale arose out of a desire to create income, but that the commercial aspect came along second to take advantage of the number of people interested in seeing the sight. I expect it was largely justified as a means to maintain the staircase rather than as a way to rake in lots of cash. If it were the latter, the fee would been at least double, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-that-circular-staircase/459363/10 "2008-08-10T14:13:39Z")
It’s a very nicely built staircase, but not any sort or miracle at all. They just like to call things miracles to impress the flocks into giving them more money. There’s an endless supply of dupes more than happy to do just that, apparently. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-that-circular-staircase/459363/11 "2008-08-11T01:46:55Z")
[QUOTE=An Arky] It’s a very nicely built staircase, but not any sort or miracle at all. They just like to call things miracles to impress the flocks into giving them more money. There’s an endless supply of dupes more than happy to do just that, apparently. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Considering that it was called a miracle before anybody gave “them” any money, I’d say your off base. As for the “dupes”, you have to remember that the story was started before the majority of people in the area were (highly?) educated, and the main form of passing information was orally. I’d chalk it up as being similar to the legend of [El Santuario](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Santuario_de_Chimayo) before I’d start writing people off as dupes. The story goes that there’s a hole near the chapel with holy dirt. No matter how much dirt people take from the hole, the hole never gets any bigger. Of course, there are so many people who participate in the pilgrimage there every Easter that the chapel has to bring dump trucks full of dirt in every year. Regardless, the legend remains, and is still orally passed down from generation to generation. Upon reflection, it’s not a true miracle, but both stories are still pretty neat, and great places to spend a bit of time soaking in their respective beauties. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-straight-dope-on-that-circular-staircase/459363/12 "2008-08-11T01:55:47Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] Considering that it was called a miracle before anybody gave “them” any money, I’d say your off base. As for the “dupes”, you have to remember that the story was started before the majority of people in the area were (highly?) educated, and the main form of passing information was orally. I’d chalk it up as being similar to the legend of [El Santuario](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Santuario_de_Chimayo) before I’d start writing people off as dupes. The story goes that there’s a hole near the chapel with holy dirt. No matter how much dirt people take from the hole, the hole never gets any bigger. Of course, there are so many people who participate in the pilgrimage there every Easter that the chapel has to bring dump trucks full of dirt in every year. Regardless, the legend remains, and is still orally passed down from generation to generation. Upon reflection, it’s not a true miracle, but both stories are still pretty neat, and great places to spend a bit of time soaking in their respective beauties. [/QUOTE] Hell, Santa Fe still has a lot of deeply religious/superstitious people. FTR, today the chapel is no longer used as such (though if you’re willing to dish out enough moolah you can use it for a wedding.) It now is owned by the [Inn at Loretto](http://www.innatloretto.com/), a rather ritzy hotel/spa in Santa Fe. I don’t know whether or not the acquisition of the chapel by the hotel coincides with them starting to charge a fee to get in, but I wouldn’t be surprised.