# What's the threshold for a firearm to be too dangerous? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 25, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510 "2019-03-25T17:00:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/341 "2019-04-17T16:43:25Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > A dog will do the same thing. Not from Guns, but yes, a watch dog is a excellent choice. In fact unless you are trained & very comfortable with guns, they might well be a better choice. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/342 "2019-04-17T16:49:23Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I have one in my car and one in my kitchen. How about you? Nope. Besides 1) I asked if that poster carried a fire extinguisher around, not was there one in their car or kitchen. 1. Who carries a fire extinguisher in their car? Is that a normal thing? (Serious question) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/343 "2019-04-17T16:50:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > When they do, I will let you know. It is so unlikely this is a “what happens if martians land” hypothetical. Yeah, that’s what I thought. You be you! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/344 "2019-04-17T16:52:17Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Nope. Besides 1) I asked if that poster carried a fire extinguisher around, not was there one in their car or kitchen. > > 1. Who carries a fire extinguisher in their car? Is that a normal thing? (Serious question) Well, um…I have one in my car, yes. :o There is also one in every government vehicle I drive. Oh, and spare food and water in my own car, as well as other tools and such (no gun though). In my case it’s probably part of my emergency response role. I’ve been to so many disaster preparedness exercises that I’ve become slightly neurotic about being prepared for disasters and emergencies. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/345 "2019-04-17T16:55:58Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Well, um…I have one in my car, yes. :o There is also one in every government vehicle I drive. Oh, and spare food and water in my own car, as well as other tools and such (no gun though). In my case it’s probably part of my emergency response role. I’ve been to so many disaster preparedness exercises that I’ve become slightly neurotic about being prepared for disasters and emergencies. LOL, I don’t even have a spare tire! ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/346 "2019-04-17T17:19:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In some areas hunting for food. Shooting is a Olympic sport. Cowboy action shooting is a fun activity. I’m cool with hunting, I don’t hunt but 100% support the concept of hunting, and the right of people to hunt. I also accept that occasionally someone will be killed in hunting accidents or by attacks with hunting weapons. Sport shooting and fun shooting can be had without the openness of ownership we have today, though there might be some classes of weapon that would be more restricted. Similar to how you can experience shooting a fully automatic weapon today, you get to shoot it, you don’t get to take it home with you. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/347 "2019-04-17T17:38:14Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > That is, in fact, a valid answer. That it is one you don’t like and refuse to accept is of no importance. You’ve asked and been answered many times. It’s not of no importance. It’s actually the whole reason I think we shouldn’t have so many guns. Criminals have an endless supply of weapons to use on their victims. The goal is to take guns away from the criminals who murder people. I know they’re not going to follow the law that says “don’t murder people with guns” but they have no choice but to follow the law of supply and demand. ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/348 "2019-04-17T17:47:59Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Oh my. I’ll click your link after you’ve Googled “baby killed in gun accident” and clicked on a few dozen of the hits. Or, to approach your fallacy from a different objection, You know, it’s very tragic that any child is killed by a firearm. It’s up to each and every firearm owner to make sure their weapon is secured in a safe manner. If a child were to access your firearm and injure or kill then you need to be held criminally responsible. So, do you think that firearms are the sole kilter of children? This is the part of the argument I’ll never get. Anti gun types eventually, ALWAYS, go to the children killed by firearms is why we need to ban them. And I’ll certainly agree the the death of a child is a tragedy. However, firearms are no where near the top of the list for children’s fatalities, yet they are the thing that is vilified. The old rebuttal is true, cars kill more young people every year by far than do firearms, yet no one is up in arms about cars? Hmmmmm, why is that? Perhaps because anti gun people aren’t so much concerned with children as they are about getting rid of people’s guns? As a responsible firearm owner when I am not using my firearms they are securely locked in a safe. All of my children have been taught firearn safety since about 4 years old. I’ve done my part. If there are irresponsible firearm owners out there, then they need to get their act together or be prepared to be prosecuted if their weapon falls into hands it shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/349 "2019-04-17T17:50:29Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > The old rebuttal is true, cars kill more young people every year by far than do firearms, yet no one is up in arms about cars? Hmmmmm, why is that? It’s because we’re not morons. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/350 "2019-04-17T17:54:00Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > The old rebuttal is true, cars kill more young people every year by far than do firearms, yet no one is up in arms about cars? Hmmmmm, why is that? Perhaps because anti gun people aren’t so much concerned with children as they are about getting rid of people’s guns? Right. That’s why there have been no safety improvements in cars, child seats, seat belts, or anything like that since cars were invented. What was the last safety improvement to guns that was designed to make it harder for children to shoot themselves or others? ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/351 "2019-04-17T20:20:34Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Right. That’s why there have been no safety improvements in cars, child seats, seat belts, or anything like that since cars were invented. > > What was the last safety improvement to guns that was designed to make it harder for children to shoot themselves or others? Send to me there are plenty of safety measures concerning firearms. Let’s see, we have safes, trigger locks, certain models like those produced by Taurus that have an actual key that can be used to disable the firearm. And most importantly, we have education. There was a timer in this country where firearm safety was taught in schools, but no more. But like any safety device it procedure, it won’t work unless the human puts then into action. And I have made muy opinion vey cheese on what should happen to firearm owners who do not secure their weapons. But that still doesn’t change the fact that thousands of children die each year due to cars, yet not a peep from those concerned with children. Do I think cars should be banned? Nope, but I do think the tragic deaths of children are used by anti gun activist to bolster their end goal of completely remove firearms from the general public. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/352 "2019-04-17T20:40:57Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yeah, that’s what I thought. You be you! What will you do if Scotus decides you no longer have the freedom to criticize the President? And that actually was a law at one time and was upheld by the then SCTUS. So this isnt a “when martians land”- this happened. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/353 "2019-04-17T21:34:31Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The Constitution was not handed down from God, we have the ability to change it if we choose to do so. For some strange reason, there isn’t a large enough majority who want to change the 2nd. Unless you start from the premise that gun owners are ignorant or insane, you might do well to ask how apparently moral and rational people support gun ownership. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Guns extract a heavy price. The benefits we get from that price should be clearer than they are. I agree. The \>500,000 instances a year when guns prevented robbery, assault, rape or murder should be well documented enough that they can’t be dismissed as anecdotal. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Maybe one of them fellow citizens can tell me what those benefits are besides “protect myself from criminals with guns”. [ul] [li]Criminals with knives and baseball bats.[/li][li]Criminals who are much bigger and stronger than I am.[/li][li]A gang of criminals who outnumber me.[/li][li]A psycho so high on meth that nothing short of catastrophic damage will stop him.[/li][/ul] > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > A dog will do the same thing. Like a pit bull? I thought people wanted to ban “assault dogs”. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/354 "2019-04-17T22:47:48Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > For some strange reason, there isn’t a large enough majority who want to change the 2nd. Unless you start from the premise that gun owners are ignorant or insane, you might do well to ask how apparently moral and rational people support gun ownership. Come now, there are lots more reasons than ignorance or insanity that gun owners could have that I still don’t think are worthy reasons. We don’t have to mischaracterize gun owners to disagree with them. An I’m pretty sure that it’s not the case that a majority of “moral and rational” people support gun ownership. Most people probably don’t care strongly either way. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/355 "2019-04-18T00:13:09Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Come now, there are lots more reasons than ignorance or insanity that gun owners could have that I still don’t think are worthy reasons. We don’t have to mischaracterize gun owners to disagree with them. > > An I’m pretty sure that it’s not the case that a majority of “moral and rational” people support gun ownership. Most people probably don’t care strongly either way. I think the majority of Americans (whether they are moral and rational or not) support the IDEA of gun ownership still, even if they choose not to have one themselves. I think I fall into this category (I also think I’m rational…I’m not sure about moral). I choose not to own a gun, but it’s my choice. And I want to have that choice as long as the 2nd has not been changed, through the process we have, to say something different than it does (not re-re-re-interpreted to now say it’s not actually a personal right and you can ban them all). I do get that many don’t see the reasons as ‘worthy reasons’ for why people make the choices or want the things they do. During Prohibition we obviously had a lot of folks who thought that constitutional limitations on purchasing alcohol would be a good thing. Lots of folks don’t understand or acknowledge any reasons for tobacco use, and I think cases can be made to support that stance in both of those cases…and guns too. But the thing is, it’s subjective as I’ve said, and highly dependent on the point of view of those making the assessment of ‘worthy reasons’ or not ‘worthy reasons’. That’s why I don’t list things for those, because it’s a huge disconnect and really, in the end, it’s moot. Instead, I look at this from a risk perspective, personally, and, frankly, the risk is lower than many things we, as a society condone or allow. The caveat to that is…societies tolerance for risk changes over time, as do attitudes. In the past, the slaughter from cars without seat belts or basic safety devices was staggering, but we blithely accepted it. The numbers of deaths from alcohol and tobacco were equally staggering, and, again, we accepted that. But things changed, and tighter restrictions were put in place to mitigate the number of deaths…which is why they have dropped over time (as well as just the general public attitudes and education of the public on the actual risks that they were ignoring). ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/356 "2019-04-18T00:42:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What will you do if Scotus decides you no longer have the freedom to criticize the President? > > And that actually was a law at one time and was upheld by the then SCTUS. So this isnt a “when martians land”- this happened. The same thing I always do - “I disagree with that law, even though it’s Constitutional”. Something it seems like you are incapable of doing. For a real-world example, I disagree with the Federal laws against marijuana. If somebody asked me how I felt about them, I wouldn’t chicken out and say “I prefer laws that are Constitutional” I’d say what I felt about that particular law. I don’t prefer it, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/357 "2019-04-18T00:49:02Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > Send to me there are plenty of safety measures concerning firearms. Let’s see, we have safes, trigger locks, certain models like those produced by Taurus that have an actual key that can be used to disable the firearm. And most importantly, we have education. There was a timer in this country where firearm safety was taught in schools, but no more Right now, it’s mandatory that babies be in car seats when traveling in a car. Would you favor mandatory trigger locks for guns in homes where toddlers are present? > [@](#): > > But that still doesn’t change the fact that thousands of children die each year due to cars, yet not a peep from those concerned with children. About how many tweets, articles, blogs, message board posts or whatever would you need to see to rescind your statement of “not a peep from those concerned with children”? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/358 "2019-04-18T01:26:04Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > It’s not of no importance. It’s actually the whole reason I think we shouldn’t have so many guns. Criminals have an endless supply of weapons to use on their victims. > > The goal is to take guns away from the criminals who murder people. I know they’re not going to follow the law that says “don’t murder people with guns” but they have no choice but to follow the law of supply and demand. Nope, it isn’t important. You are, maybe, owed an answer. You aren’t owed the answer you want to hear. ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/359 "2019-04-18T01:33:58Z")
[quote=“Slash1972, post:357, topic:831510”] Right now, it’s mandatory that babies be in car seats when traveling in a car. Would you favor mandatory trigger locks for guns in homes where toddlers are present? [/QUOTE No, I wouldn’t mandate trigger locks as the only means of securing a firearm. I have no problem with a law requiring the safe storage of a firearm, be that in a safe, use of a trigger lock or whatever. The only issue I have with a trigger lock is that makes the firearm all but useless if needed immediately. If you secure you’re firearms in a safe, then trigger locks are redundant. So while I can’t say I would be in favor of mandatory trigger locks I can say that if you own a firearm it is up to you, the owner, to ensure that your firearm is safety stored and inaccessible to children. If a child gets possessing of your firearm then I think the full weight of the system should rain down on your head. In fact I’ll go one further and say if you are irresponsible enough to allow children to get access to your firearms you should not be allowed to own them. > [@Slash1972](#): > > About how many tweets, articles, blogs, message board posts or whatever would you need to see to rescind your statement of “not a peep from those concerned with children”? How many people do you hear screaming for cars to be banned? I haven’t heard a single one. The point I’m making is that while anti gun activist surely do care about children, saving children is not their primary goal, the removal of firearms from the general population is. And because of that they’ll exploit tragedies involving firearms while ignoring other causes of childhood deaths that are way more prevalent. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510/360 "2019-04-18T02:04:39Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > A psycho so high on meth that nothing short of catastrophic damage will stop him. Does this prospect actually take up brain cycles in your self-defense calculus? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-threshold-for-a-firearm-to-be-too-dangerous/831510.md?page=19)