# What's the truth about Kerry & Edward's attendance records? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2004, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747 "2004-10-12T01:01:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/21 "2004-10-12T13:39:43Z")
> [@Early Out](#): > > And most Senate hearings are for show, anyway…These hearings are a slow, ineffecient way to conduct business. Right. And I am sure that such was Edwards’ reasoning when he skipped out of the meetings. As I am sure you know, quite a bit _does_ get decided in committee. And the stats are for his attendance to Senate Judiciary Committee meetings; we aren’t talking about the ‘Special Committee on Aging’ or somesuch. Don’t get me wrong, I would rather that The Beave not be present than be present, but it is a bit disingenuous to point out _only_ his voting record (which hasn’t been so hot this year), and to simply dismiss the rest of his attendance record. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/22 "2004-10-12T13:47:21Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > …it is a bit disingenuous to point out _only_ his voting record (which hasn’t been so hot this year), and to simply dismiss the rest of his attendance record. Granted, that’s a fair subject for debate, and one that I honestly have mixed feelings about. For an outsider, it’s tough to gauge what’s important and what’s not - the way the Senate conducts its business can be pretty inscrutable. As long as we’re careful to keep comparing apples to apples, we’ll be fine. Which is precisely what **Liberal** did _not_ do, despite the impression he tried to convey. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/23 "2004-10-12T17:15:58Z")
**Reeder** > [@](#): > > Sam would have made a great Nazi. [Administrator Hat ON] Reeder has been put on an enforced suspension of not less than one month, based on this comment, his previous Pit thread posting, and prior warnings. Please take any discussion of this to the Pit. Thanks. [Administrator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/24 "2004-10-12T19:09:50Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > An honest response would not have been what you did, **Liberal**. It would have been to say, “Well, I don’t think that Senate votes reflect attendance in the Senate very well. I think that attendance at committee meetings, business meetings and hearings is a better indicator. Here are some stats (albeit from a partisan newspaper) regarding Edwards attendance at these things, but excluding his attendance for actual votes.” > > See the difference? Or are you still speechless and thinking about hand towels? That’s Lib’s m.o. - post something disingenous, then feign outrage when called on it. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/25 "2004-10-12T19:34:42Z")
Maus Magill: > [@](#): > > In attention to his constituents’ needs, I would say he was only rivaled by Jessie Helms. Spoken like someone who never had Al “Senator Pothole” D’Amato. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/26 "2004-10-13T14:44:31Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > That’s Lib’s m.o. - post something disingenous, then feign outrage when called on it. I wasn’t outraged; I was flummoxed. Just because you choose to consider only the most favorable reports about your team captain doesn’t mean the rest of us cannot consider all reports. When you go about quoting a man’s own hired shill to bolster your point, you should expect thinking people to be suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/27 "2004-10-21T17:50:19Z")
What gets lost here in the discussion of committee hearings and business meetings is the vital importance of the business meetings. A lot of committee hearings are indeed for show, but business meetings are another matter. Those are where the real work gets done. That is where votes are taken, bills are written up, and legislation gets crafted. It is vital that Senators attend them (that is, if they want their state to be represented). For Edwards to miss so many of them is inexcusable. And the point someone made about Cheney’s lack of time presiding over the Senate is completely irrelevant. Cheney never said, in the debate, that he spent a lot of time presiding over the Senate. What he said was that he was in the Senate most Tuesdays of the last three years. This is a fact. Cheney attended the Republican Policy Committee lunches on those days, and attended regularly. That’s what he was talking about and he wasn’t being disingenous as some ill-informed bloggers think. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/28 "2004-10-21T18:18:03Z")
> [@Renob](#): > > And the point someone made about Cheney’s lack of time presiding over the Senate is completely irrelevant. Cheney never said, in the debate, that he spent a lot of time presiding over the Senate. What he said was that he was in the Senate most Tuesdays of the last three years. This is a fact. Cheney attended the Republican Policy Committee lunches on those days, and attended regularly. That’s what he was talking about and he wasn’t being disingenous as some ill-informed bloggers think. Actually, it is more disingenuous than some ill-informed bloggers think. Cheney’s clear implication was that because he attended the Senate every Tuesday that he was likely to occasionally encounter any senator who was doing his job conscienciously. In actual fact, Cheney makes an appearance at the Republican luncheon, conveys his talking points, and then leaves usually without actually having lunch. And, it’s a lunch to which _no Democrats are invited_. In point of fact, Cheney’s Tuesday visits to the Senate result in _few, if any_, encounters with Democratic senators. For him to imply that this statistic was somehow relevant to Edwards’s commitment to his duties was intentionally misleading. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/29 "2004-10-21T18:23:46Z")
> [@Renob](#): > > And the point someone made about Cheney’s lack of time presiding over the Senate is completely irrelevant. Cheney never said, in the debate, that he spent a lot of time presiding over the Senate. What he said was that he was in the Senate most Tuesdays of the last three years. This is a fact. Cheney attended the Republican Policy Committee lunches on those days, and attended regularly. That’s what he was talking about and he wasn’t being disingenous as some ill-informed bloggers think. But in the debate he clearly intended to mislead the American people. This was a preface to the planned but false zinger about not meeting Edwards before that night. The implication clearly was: “I was in the Senate every week and never saw YOU there. Must me YOU have the attendence problem.” Hey, Sherlock, I wonder why Edwards wasn’t in the Republican Policy meetings? Truth is, Edwards actually presided over the Senate more than Cheney, whose job it is so to do! ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/30 "2004-10-21T18:44:36Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > But in the debate he clearly intended to mislead the American people. This was a preface to the planned but false zinger about not meeting Edwards before that night. The implication clearly was: “I was in the Senate every week and never saw YOU there. Must me YOU have the attendence problem.” Hey, Sherlock, I wonder why Edwards wasn’t in the Republican Policy meetings? Truth is, Edwards actually presided over the Senate more than Cheney, whose job it is so to do! I can’t speak for his comment on never meeting Edwards, but I can speak to the fact that what Cheney said otherwise was completely correct. He said that he was there most Tuesdays, and he is. And while Edwards is not in the RPC lunches, the area where the RPC and the Democratic Policy Committee have their lunches at the same time is very near. Furthermore, that whole area of the Capitol is quite small, and it’s hard to avoid seeing someone if you’re there around the same time. Not to mention the fact that Cheney hangs around the Senate after the lunches, giving him plenty of time to see many Democratic Senators (and tell them off, as he did Pat Leahy). So he was makng a perfectly legitimate point about Edwards’ attendance record. And the point about presiding over the Senate is completely irrelevant. No Vice-President presides over the Senate unless he is needed to break a tie vote. It would be a waste of time for him to do so. Most of those who preside over the Senate are junior Senators who don’t have enough seniority to get out of it. It’s a crap job that wastes at least an hour of a Senator’s time – time when he or she could be doing more important work. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/31 "2004-10-21T18:51:07Z")
> [@Renob](#): > > No Vice-President presides over the Senate unless he is needed to break a tie vote. Huh? > [@](#): > > Clause 4: **The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate** , but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided. That’s pretty much his _job_. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/32 "2004-10-21T18:57:52Z")
> [@Renob](#): > > I can’t speak for his comment on never meeting Edwards, but I can speak to the fact that what Cheney said otherwise was completely correct. He said that he was there most Tuesdays, and he is. Oh please. He was implying that he’s in the Senate every week and that Edwards isn’t, otherwise they’d have met. Taking the words otherwise is just dishonest. > [@](#): > > And while Edwards is not in the RPC lunches, the area where the RPC and the Democratic Policy Committee have their lunches at the same time is very near. Furthermore, that whole area of the Capitol is quite small, and it’s hard to avoid seeing someone if you’re there around the same time. Oh, so what Cheney was saying was “we often eat lunch within a couple of blocks of each other, and if you were at those lunches, we would surely have gone out for a walk and met some time?” Bull. > [@](#): > > Not to mention the fact that Cheney hangs around the Senate after the lunches, giving him plenty of time to see many Democratic Senators (and tell them off, as he did Pat Leahy). Cite for how often he does this? > [@](#): > > So he was makng a perfectly legitimate point about Edwards’ attendance record. Although he had to misrepresent his own attendance record to do so, and also to fabricate a comment from a North Carolina newspaper to smear Edwards. ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/33 "2004-10-21T19:08:59Z")
Casting the rhetoric aside, it is clear that Kerry must be doing something right if he’s been in office 20 years now! OTOH, Bush has no experience working at the Federal level. Now, he’s had 4 years to get something accomplished whereas Kerry has many re-elections under his belt now. Surely, Edwards’ record is tanatamount to that of Kerry… As for attendance and voting record, it is clear Kerry used sound judgement about this matter. Like a check and balance, it is his right ot flex such legislative muscle expecially when there very well may have been unsavory riders tacked on to every bill…and every other political game…Kerry simply refused to stoop that level! - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/34 "2004-10-21T19:13:09Z")
> [@Renob](#): > > I can’t speak for his comment on never meeting Edwards, but I can speak to the fact that what Cheney said otherwise was completely correct. He said that he was there most Tuesdays, and he is. You _must_ be kidding. Cheney has been absent from the Senate so often, he’s presided only [**twice** in the last four years.](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/6/11163/2940) Hell, _Hillary Clinton_ has served as Acting Presidents of the Senate more times than Cheney has… ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/35 "2004-10-21T19:13:36Z")
**blowero** , while that is technically the VP’s only job, in reality no VP has presided over the Senate, except when he might be needed to cast a tie-breaking vote, in a long time. That’s just not what VPs do any more. > [@Marley23](#): > > Oh please. He was implying that he’s in the Senate every week and that Edwards isn’t, otherwise they’d have met. Taking the words otherwise is just dishonest. I’ll agree that he was imlying this, and he was correct that he was in the Senate every week. Edwards, from his attendance record, was not. > [@](#): > > Oh, so what Cheney was saying was “we often eat lunch within a couple of blocks of each other, and if you were at those lunches, we would surely have gone out for a walk and met some time?” Bull. It’s not a couple blocks, it’s a couple of paces. They each eat on the same floor on the same side of the Capitol, in rooms that are basically next to each other. > [@](#): > > Cite for how often he does this? I used to work for a Senator and would hear him remark about how often Cheney was around. > [@](#): > > Although he had to misrepresent his own attendance record to do so, and also to fabricate a comment from a North Carolina newspaper to smear Edwards. What fabrication of his own attendance record? Just as he said, he was there most Tuesdays during the past three years. Nothing fabricated about that. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/36 "2004-10-21T19:19:41Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > You _must_ be kidding. Cheney has been absent from the Senate so often, he’s presided only [**twice** in the last four years.](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/6/11163/2940) In his quote, Cheney _was not_ talking about presiding over the Senate. You people do realize, don’t you, that someone can be present in the Senate and not preside over it? Cheney said that he visited the Senate most Tuesdays. He didn’t say that he presided over it most Tuesdays. There’s a distinction that most people don’t get. It’s an important one, however. Vice Presidents only preside over the Senate if they feel their vote may be needed to break a tie. They don’t just come in, sit in the chair, and waste their time up there. If you look at who presides over the Senate, unless it’s a big vote, it’s almost always a junior Senator who doesn’t have enough seniority to get out of doing it. It’s not a prestigious job – it’s a job that’s a waste of a Senator’s time. So to attack Cheney for not presiding over the Senate is to misunderstand what that term means and to ignore the fact that pretty much all Vice Presidents have failed to do this regularly. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/37 "2004-10-21T19:35:47Z")
> [@Renob](#): > > What fabrication of his own attendance record? Just as he said, he was there most Tuesdays during the past three years. Nothing fabricated about that. He was still trying to give the impression that in the normal course of his duties, he would’ve seen Edwards if Edwards hadn’t been missing so often. At best if everything you say is true, this is debatable. Cheney said that Edwards’s “hometown paper” was calling him “Senator Gone” because of his bad attendance record. The paper in question was not Edwards’s hometown paper, it was a different, much less well-known paper from elsewhere in North Carolina. The paper said they were grateful for the attention, but that the comment was a few years old and not how they regularly referred to Edwards. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/38 "2004-10-21T19:41:33Z")
> [@Renob](#): > > Not to mention the fact that Cheney hangs around the Senate after the lunches, giving him plenty of time to see many Democratic Senators (and tell them off, as he did Pat Leahy). In fact, the whole point about this incident is that Cheney _rarely_ “hangs around the Senate.” In that particular instance Cheney stayed late in order to participate in a group photograph of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Leahy went over to greet him and to comment on how it was a rare pleasure to encounter Cheney there. The whole area of the Capitol is a small area? This is just prevarication. Yes, relatively speaking, it is. But it is actually several city blocks large and several large, labyrinthine buildings. You’re _not_ likely to bump into a Democratic senator if the only event you’re attending every week is the Republican policy lunch. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/39 "2004-10-21T19:47:57Z")
I unserstand this issue might be dead, but I’d like to point out that the _Deseret News_, owned by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is not generally considered to be the most moderate and blanaced of publications. I think even its most die-hard readers would safely say it skews right. I ain’t sayin’, I’m just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747/40 "2004-10-21T19:56:25Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > The whole area of the Capitol is a small area? This is just prevarication. Yes, relatively speaking, it is. But it is actually several city blocks large and several large, labyrinthine buildings. You’re _not_ likely to bump into a Democratic senator if the only event you’re attending every week is the Republican policy lunch. We aren’t talking about the whole area of the Capitol. We’re talking about the Senate side of the Capitol, specifically one floor on the Senate side and even more specifically one corridor on that floor where both the RPC and DPC lunches take place. And after those meetings you’re very likely to bump into any number of Senators since there is usually an informal press conference after those lunches. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-truth-about-kerry-edwards-attendance-records/268747.md?page=3)