# What's the utility to Iran's regime of practical, all-out as opposed to rhetorical enmity towards Israel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2026, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-utility-to-irans-regime-of-practical-all-out-as-opposed-to-rhetorical-enmity-towards-israel/1031853 "2026-07-22T16:53:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2026, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-utility-to-irans-regime-of-practical-all-out-as-opposed-to-rhetorical-enmity-towards-israel/1031853/21 "2026-07-24T09:10:32Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The Iranians could have decided that the consulate attack was not an attack on their soil …or Isreal could have decided not to attack the consulate. > [@Alessan](#): > > Iran can end it conflict with Israel tomorrow. That’s utter nonsense. Isreal attacks when it wants to attack. It _never_ respects any ceasefire in the region in the last few years. From cellphone bombs to sending in hit squads disguised as hospital staff: they are _not_ the good faith actors here. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2026, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-utility-to-irans-regime-of-practical-all-out-as-opposed-to-rhetorical-enmity-towards-israel/1031853/22 "2026-07-24T09:42:04Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > It _never_ respects any ceasefire in the region in the last few years. What ceasefires has Israel broken that hadn’t been broken by the other party first? I know for a fact that Israel has never broken a peace agreement, neither with Egypt nor with Jordan. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2026, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-utility-to-irans-regime-of-practical-all-out-as-opposed-to-rhetorical-enmity-towards-israel/1031853/23 "2026-07-24T10:41:04Z")
ISTM, that the question of the anti-Israel rhetoric on one hand and the alliances with and material support for proxy enemies on the part of the IRI on the other, would largely _antecede_ the current situation. As in, the confrontation and mutual aggressions were already there before and have gone hot before, too. Just that now it’s got to where it seemed to be leading to all along. Once more litigating fault over who did what in THIS current war phase, however, seems to me to be one _late_ data point that’s more about effect than cause. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2026, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-utility-to-irans-regime-of-practical-all-out-as-opposed-to-rhetorical-enmity-towards-israel/1031853/24 "2026-07-24T11:40:34Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > What ceasefires has Israel broken that hadn’t been broken by the other party first? Pretty much all of them? Israel is notorious for considering it a “ceasefire” when when the other side stops shooting, even if they never stop at all. As far as I can tell they consider themselves to have complete license to do as they please, and that they need no more justification than wanting to do something for it to be inherently good and any opposition to it deserving of death. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2026, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-utility-to-irans-regime-of-practical-all-out-as-opposed-to-rhetorical-enmity-towards-israel/1031853/25 "2026-07-24T12:21:51Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The Iranians could have decided that the consulate attack was not an attack on their soil - it was by any definition an edge case. Seriously? An attack on an embassy, anywhere in the world, is a big deal, and would almost certainly be considered an act of war by almost any country. Have forces of a nation-state attack any US embassy, and see what happens to them. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2026, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-utility-to-irans-regime-of-practical-all-out-as-opposed-to-rhetorical-enmity-towards-israel/1031853/26 "2026-07-24T13:54:35Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > What ceasefires has Israel broken that hadn’t been broken by the other party first? …examples below. More can be provided if that isn’t enough. [https://www.npr.org/2026/07/22/nx-s1-5896051/historic-hub-of-south-lebanon-badly-damaged-in-war-with-israel](https://www.npr.org/2026/07/22/nx-s1-5896051/historic-hub-of-south-lebanon-badly-damaged-in-war-with-israel) > **[Lebanon: Israel’s attacks continue one year into "ceasefire"](https://www.nrc.no/news/2025/november/lebanon-israels-attacks-continue-one-year-into-ceasefire)** [https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/10/un-experts-warn-against-continued-violations-ceasefire-lebanon-and-urge](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/10/un-experts-warn-against-continued-violations-ceasefire-lebanon-and-urge) > **[Gaza civilians continue to be killed 9 months into ceasefire - Vatican News](https://www.vaticannews.va/en/world/news/2026-07/gaza-israel-palestinians-hamas-war-deaths-humanitarian-crisis.html)** > > A family of six is killed in an Israeli airstrike on Tuesday in the latest of continuing deadly attacks on the Strip since a U.S.-backed ceasefire was ... So no: Iran _can’t_ just end this conflict. Because either the United States or Isreal might kick it all off again on a whim with another bombing or targeted assasination. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2026, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-utility-to-irans-regime-of-practical-all-out-as-opposed-to-rhetorical-enmity-towards-israel/1031853/27 "2026-07-24T14:27:23Z")
I imagine that Israel would claim that in each of those cases, the other party broke it first. Trying to get to the bottom of “who started it” in the Middle East is a fool’s errand, since all sides involved trace the origins of the conflicts (correctly or not) to prehistory. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2026, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-utility-to-irans-regime-of-practical-all-out-as-opposed-to-rhetorical-enmity-towards-israel/1031853/28 "2026-07-24T14:56:39Z")
…it isn’t a “fools errand.” In the case of Lebanon, it’s reporting directly from UN experts and in the second case we literally have over a thousand Palestinians deaths compared to only two Israeli deaths (which Hamas denies was caused by them). This isn’t confusing at all. This “we don’t know who started it” thing shouldn’t work at all any more. Of _course_ the party accused of breaking the ceasefire is going to claim they didn’t start it. That doesn’t mean they are telling the truth. “Israel claims…” isn’t a statement of fact, and we should stop treating it as such. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2026, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-utility-to-irans-regime-of-practical-all-out-as-opposed-to-rhetorical-enmity-towards-israel/1031853/29 "2026-07-24T16:11:22Z")
But I’ll betcha that in each of those cases there was an actual act of violence by someone that they were responding to, and that Israel can at least semi-plausibly say was perpetrated by a member of the group that they were retaliating against. While the other group will of course say that that someone was completely unconnected to them. EDIT: Which is not to say that Israel can’t be blamed for such acts, just that the argument for the blame needs to be more nuanced. “Such-and-such attack, purported in response to such-and-such action, was a disproportionate response to that action”. ---
**Author:** ![Ancient\_Nerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed655f/32.png) [@Ancient\_Nerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ancient_Nerd)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2026, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-utility-to-irans-regime-of-practical-all-out-as-opposed-to-rhetorical-enmity-towards-israel/1031853/30 "2026-07-24T20:17:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Trying to get to the bottom of “who started it” in the Middle East is a fool’s errand, since all sides involved trace the origins of the conflicts (correctly or not) to prehistory. Actually 1917 is a reasonable starting point. In that year, during world war one, Britain made a deal with the locals to start the Arab revolt against the Ottoman empire. At about the same time, they made a deal with France to split the territory with France. In addition, we have the Balfour declaration, a concept to send some victims of prejudice, the Jewish diaspora, back where they came from. A lack of ground rules and enforcement for the wave of settlers triggered a xenophobic response among the established residents in the 1920’s. The situation has been spiraling ever since then. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2026, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-utility-to-irans-regime-of-practical-all-out-as-opposed-to-rhetorical-enmity-towards-israel/1031853/31 "2026-07-25T00:59:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But I’ll betcha that in each of those cases there was an actual act of violence by someone that they were responding to, and that Israel can at least semi-plausibly say was perpetrated by a member of the group that they were retaliating against. …I would take that bet. I would _win_ that bet. Because we are talking about real people here. We know who died. When they died. How they died. We can look any of them up. In the case of Lebanon we are talking about an illegal annexation under international law and the locals have a right to defend themselves. In the case of Gaza I’d ask you for specifics. For example, this month: > **[Israeli attacks on Gaza intensify amid surge of West Bank settler violence](https://news.un.org/en/story/2026/07/1167991)** > > Amid intensified deadly Israeli attacks in Gaza, the UN chief and top officials condemned the killings while a surge violence rocked the West Bank and aid agencies scrambled to help Palestinians. We have an Isreali drone strike that killed seven outside a grocery store. A schoolteacher shot while she was teaching. 283 women and children killed since the “ceasefire” began. Six children this month alone. Now: where are these “acts of violence”? Show me. Because Isreal isn’t even _making_ those claims. They barely make any comment at all. In the very few times they do, it’s in cases like this: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog\_entry/two-children-killed-in-gaza-strike-were-brothers-aged-8-and-11-palestinians-say/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/two-children-killed-in-gaza-strike-were-brothers-aged-8-and-11-palestinians-say/) > [@](#): > > Two Palestinian children allegedly killed in an Israeli airstrike in the southern Gaza Strip earlier today are identified by Palestinian media as brothers Juma, 11, and Fadi, 8, of the Abu Asi family. > > According to the military, the two “suspects” were identified by troops crossing the Yellow Line in the Bani Suheila area near Khan Younis, carrying out “suspicious activity in the ground,” and approaching the forces “in a way that posed an immediate threat.” > > After the pair were identified, the Israeli Air Force struck and killed them “to remove the threat,” the IDF says. So in one of the very few cases where Israel actually makes a claim that they were responding to “an actual act of violence” it was the case of an 11 year old and an 8 year old boy that were “acting suspiciously” so they engaged the air-force to take them out. That’s the _reality_ on the ground. And I personally find the fact that they chose this, out of all the other killings they’ve done since the ceasefire began, to make a statement on to be indicative of _something_. So bringing it back to Iran: a country that was Pearl Harbor-ed and had the equivalent of the Pope and the House of Representatives slaughtered, that had been infiltrated to the degree that [Israel was launching drones from inside the country](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/14/drone-op-claims-show-israel-mossad-leaning-in-to-its-legend), have every reason to not treat anything Israel or America says in good faith. They have every reason to hate. I’m not suggesting “hate” is a good thing. But for every bit of hateful rhetoric you hear out of Iran, you hear the most incredibly hateful stuff coming from people like the current minister of national security, Itamar Ben-Gvir, from the president of the United States of America; and from people like Randy Fine. Every time you hear about what Iran’s “proxies” are up to we find out that Israel has committed yet another act that is illegal under international law, like the cellphone bombings or disguising themselves as doctors and nurses or killing scientists and their families while they sleep. The only difference is we _celebrate_ things like the cellphone bombings and killing scientists in their sleep. That’s something I can’t reconcile. And when the OP is basically asking, “Why are _they_ like this?” I’m constantly asking myself, “Why are _we_ like this?” And the truth is we aren’t any different at all. There are horrible people all over the world. There are people hopelessly indoctrinated. These horrible people are also in charge. It’s just that some of these horrible people are “on our side,” so we do our best to pretend that this isn’t the case. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2026, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-utility-to-irans-regime-of-practical-all-out-as-opposed-to-rhetorical-enmity-towards-israel/1031853/32 "2026-07-25T01:18:20Z")
What’s the utility to Iran’s regime of practical, all-out as opposed to rhetorical enmity towards Israel? Since when have religious and ethnic fanaticism been grounded in logic? Having an “other” to hate and mobilize against has long been a successful means of staying in power - for awhile, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2026, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-utility-to-irans-regime-of-practical-all-out-as-opposed-to-rhetorical-enmity-towards-israel/1031853/33 "2026-07-26T12:44:54Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Having an “other” to hate and mobilize against has long been a successful means of staying in power And once in a while you need to be seen “doing something about it.” And if it leads to _them_ deciding to take the initiative to “do something about it”, same effect though more painful, perhaps, for you. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2026, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-utility-to-irans-regime-of-practical-all-out-as-opposed-to-rhetorical-enmity-towards-israel/1031853/34 "2026-07-26T14:41:03Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And once in a while you need to be seen “doing something about it.” Is that really the case though? Or is it really necessary to be doing something direct? Americans seem to have a lasting emnity towards USSR even without direct conflict. * * * Is it accurate to say that the conflict between Iran and Israel has greatly intensified since the Second Gulf War after Saddam Hussein’s regime collapsed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-utility-to-irans-regime-of-practical-all-out-as-opposed-to-rhetorical-enmity-towards-israel/1031853.md?page=1)