# What's the worst city in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 24, 2003, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642 "2003-09-24T22:05:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/81 "2003-10-14T12:15:30Z")
Regarding WINNIPEG (AKA “Winterpeg”)-why is it there? Is it a major transit point or manufacturing center? I don’t know why that cityis where it is…or is it in the process of dissappering? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/82 "2003-10-14T20:40:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ralph124c \* > \*\*Regarding WINNIPEG (AKA “Winterpeg”)-why is it there? \*\* Even though it had been founded 10 years earlier, Winnipeg owes its survival and major growth to its position as a major hub of the Canadian Pacific Railroad. And Winnipeg now is a pretty major financial and agricultural center…all that Manitoba wheat. ---
**Author:** ![Montresor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/839c29/32.png) [@Montresor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montresor)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/83 "2003-10-14T23:15:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Governor Quinn \* > \*\*I live in northern California and have never been in Oakland. Driven through it many times, been in Berkeley several times, but not in Oakland. \*\* Parts of Oakland are lovely; architecturally, there are some real gems over there, and the Grand Lake Theater is just breathtaking. Sadly, much of the rest of the city, particularly West Oakland, is breathtaking as well, in a rather different sense. A friend of mine moved there, way down by the Army base and the Port of Oakland. When I went to visit him, three cop cars passed me during the 20-yard walk to his yard (which was fenced in with 8-ft, razor-wire-topped cyclone fence). They were all running lights and sirens, and were all headed in **different directions** , presumably to different crises. There’s a very real perception in neighborning communities that the whole city is a war zone. The decaying houses and the constant shootings that lead the local news create an artificially bleak image, but all in all, its a real PR nightmare for Mayor Moonbeam. I can’t help but feel that Oakland is not really as bad as it seems, but I’ll admit, I don’t look for reasons to visit. Still, as ugly and dangerous-seeming as it is, I’d rather live there than some prefabricated personality-free placeholder community like Fremont or Walnut Creek… There are worse things, spriritually, than urban decay. ---
**Author:** ![coleridge78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@coleridge78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coleridge78)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/84 "2003-10-15T01:35:03Z")
Baltimore? Are you kidding? Baltimore is paradise compared to most of the other places mentioned here. As a matter of fact, since I moved away I try to go back for at least a week every summer. Yes, it absolutely has its problems, the economic ruin brought by the collapse of Bethlehem Steel being chief among them. But, the bottom was reached decades ago, and the upswing is palpable. There’s a lot of work left to be done, but it’s not a bad place. Anyone who thinks that Baltimore (or Buffalo, or Richmond, etc) is worse than Gary/E St Louis/Detroit has obviously never been to those cities. They are truly dysfunctional and aching of hopelesness. ---
**Author:** ![jbird3000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/aeb1de/32.png) [@jbird3000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbird3000)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/85 "2003-10-15T03:13:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > **Even though it had been founded 10 years earlier, Winnipeg owes its survival and major growth to its position as a major hub of the Canadian Pacific Railroad.** And it owes its existance to being on the convergance of the Red and Assiniboine rivers, which made it a good trading post. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/86 "2003-10-15T07:42:31Z")
**Baltimore** wasn’t my idea…and according to the FBI and the Dept of Justice reports that Baltimore hit bottom 6-8 years ago and has improved vastly in the past 2-3 years. But it was so bad that despite its improvements, it still makes the top 5 worst list in practically every category. Thus giving the “overall” worst average if **large** cities. Economic disparity isn’t the only factor considered, even though Money Magazine did give it the worst rating. The crime rates in Baltimore w/ an index rating of 9,607.4 far exceed those of Gary at 5,934.7 while Detroit is close behind at 9,431.6. Surprisingly (to me anyway) St. Louis, MO had a crime index rating of **15,024.1** WOW! don’t get caught out at night, huh? [That is 2002 data according to](http://149.101.22.40/dataonline/Search/Crime/Crime.cfm) the DOJ and the FBI. I realize there are probably worse places than Baltimore. It surprises me to find out how bad it appears to be. But then I think all cities pretty much suck anyway. They all have places where it’s just not a pretty site. That is the nature of cities…hey look at all the beautiful stuff…all the while sweeping their unwanted stuff under the rug or behind closed doors. Damnit man, I’m in **Texas** and I love it for the most part. But I know what the hell goes on in places here. (it’s not just here though, it’s everywhere else too) I could take you to a few small towns I know. Most folks wouldn’t make/couldn’t take it for one day. Ever been to **Notrees, Tx** or **Levelland** maybe **Jasper** or **Vidor** of course I suppose this thread is sticking to large cities. In that case… **Beaumont** sucks. Austin was cool also San Antonio, Houston, nope I had enough that place, same w/ Dallas, and El Paso. Corpus is allright, Galveston’s pretty cool if you know the tricks. New Orleans BIG PARTY…don’t wanna live there again though. Amarillo, F\*\* that frigid bitch it was colder there than parts of Colorado was. Ft Worth cowtown’s okay, hell, that’s just Texas and not all of it, I could go on for awhile longer, but it’s gettin way late I’m and way off track. I could cite a few more stats and opinions but it really doesn’t matter. To some, where I live is their worst. I hear it from folks all the time. But, you couldn’t make me live in another city, not if you gave it to me. I have lived in plenty of them. Hell for me…any place where there’s traffic. 😉 and really tall buildings and too much cement and folks who don’t speak and rap music and door to door anybody Damn, sounds like another thread coming out. 😃 **Worst** place is being somewhere you don’t want to be. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/87 "2003-10-15T15:00:42Z")
Pine Bluff, Arkansas, is pretty bleak. No way Richmond deserves to be on the list. Or Buffalo. Both have at least a vital middle class (and Richmond a hell of an FFOV upper class). I haven’t been to Buffalo, but I know an awful lot of people from there who have done quite well for themselves. I mean, yes, they moved, but they still have family back there and obviously Buffalo was a decent launching pad for life. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/88 "2003-10-15T16:45:38Z")
It was Oakland, CA that Gertrude Stein and Alice B. Toklas were talking about when they said “There is no ‘there,’ there.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Obvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Mr.Obvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Obvious)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/89 "2003-10-15T22:47:05Z")
My Top 5 (and yes…I’ve spent (unfortunately) a fair amount of time in these cities). 1. Gary, Indiana–I had a client who had a steel making plant there, I always dreaded the trips…scariest friggin place I’ve ever been…only place in the US, where I really wished I was carrying a gun…and I’m not a gun freak. 2. East St. Louis, IL–I went to school at SIUE and I met a number of people from there and bought beer there before I was 21. They didn’t have trash pick up in ESL for over 10 years and the city hall is owned by a resident who sued the city for some reason and since the city didn’t have any money, they gave him the town hall and ESL pays him rent. My GF was a social worker and the stories she used to tell me about ESL were third-world scary 3. Flint, Michigan–I used to have to go to the Flint Buick plant for work…most of the GM employees I knew didn’t live there and EVERYONE left work before dark in the Winter for fear of carjacking. 4. Baltimore–It smells like feces…the whole town smells like feces and I’ve never seen more crack dealers per capita then anywhere else in the world. 5. Detroit, MI–I lived in metro-Detroit for 7 years…the place sucks. The government is crooked…the police force doesn’t give a shit…there is NOTHING to do in the entire city…on Saturday’s and Sunday’s (when the Red Wings and Tigers aren’t playing) the place is a ghost town. Seriously…you can drive around downtown Detroit and see 50 people max. When there are over 10 websites devoted to documenting the decay and vacant buildings of your city…you know you have problems. Dishonorable Mention: Pontiac, Michigan Benton Harbour, Michigan Newark, NJ Riverside, CA Odessa, TX ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/90 "2003-10-15T23:38:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by t-keela \* > \*\*How about[this town](http://www.crawfordtx.com/) > > Would you really **want** to live there? 😉 \*\* Well, not all the time. I hear it’s very nice whenever its leading resident isn’t there. 😉 That said, my vote goes to another Texas town. I hate Abilene with a passion. It’s got an interesting population. Between three conservative Christian universities and Dyess Air Force Base, most of the population is pretty transient and self-contained. The locals claw and scratch for service-economy jobs that pay minimum wage. They were able to attract BlueCross and BlueShield of Texas, which is something, but when BCBS had a job fair to do its initial hiring, they were turning people away. There were something like 1600+ applicants for (IIRC) about 400-500 jobs. That speaks volumes about the economy. What speaks volumes about the quality of the workforce was that BCBS had such turnover problems that they were having to start new training classes of about twenty people every two months or so. Some couldn’t grasp the notion that they were expected to call off when they got sick. Some couldn’t grasp the basics of their job. Some were so used to being treated badly by previous employers that they took advantage of BCBS like committing timecard fraud. Another issue is that the concept of higher education only exists if you have the money to go to one of three private universities (McMurry, Hardin-Simmons and Abilene Christian Universities) or you have the time, inclination and patience to drive to San Angelo. There is a junior college branch and a technical college there, but if you want a bachelor’s degree, you’re SOL unless you’ve got bux. What finally drove me out of town was the extreme religion-based social conservatism of the populace. I’ve got no problems with people who want to practice their religion openly. That’s fine. These were people who felt that they had the right to morally judge those who practiced different beliefs. Those that came up short were ostracized if they were lucky. I once went to work to find a Chick tract on my desk, left by some anonymous person who cared so desperately about my soul that they were willing to risk termination. There were rumors going on about me that I was a lesbian (which I only cared about in the sense that homosexuals face massive discrimination and harassment. No one deserves that kind of treatment for any reason, but to get it based on a whisper frosted my ass.); that I had a dead baby in my desk; that I kept weapons of some sort in my desk; that I wanted to seduce some of the women in my office (netting me at least one physical threat that the company knew about). And all of this was justified in these people’s tiny minds because they “had Jesus in their heart”. :rolleyes: And that’s why I hate Abilene, Texas, and if Airman is ever assigned to Dyess Air Force Base, I’m divorcing him on the spot. 😉 Robin ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/91 "2003-10-16T00:52:20Z")
I have to be missing something. Which Baltimore are you people talking about? Not the one in Maryland, for sure? I _love_ Baltimore! The Inner Harbor is beautiful. Fell’s point is a blast. And in between you’ve got Little Italy, with enough good restaurants to choke Dom Deluise. I even love the aquarium! There’s even “The Block”, if you’re into that sort of thing. You all must be driving through the wrong part of Baltimore. Now, as for Newark, I work there, and it’s a depressing, bombed-out shithole of a city. I’d be willing to bet that it’s _among_ the worst in the U.S., but probably not _the_ worst. Believe it or not, Camden seems to have a worse reputation than Newark among people who live in New Jersey. **Amethyst Autumn** , did you call Ikea International Airport (my name for Newark Liberty) a _nice airport?!?!?_ That may be the only time I’ve ever heard it spoken of positively. ---
**Author:** ![Amethyst\_Autumn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Amethyst\_Autumn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amethyst_Autumn)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/92 "2003-10-16T01:13:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Amethyst Autumn, did you call Ikea International Airport (my name for Newark Liberty) a nice airport?!?!? That may be the only time I’ve ever heard it spoken of positively. I’ve been there six times. It has nice shops, a good view of NYC, comfy chairs, abundant public transportation to NYC and a monorail. Newark’s ugly but the airport isn’t so bad. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/93 "2003-10-16T11:45:03Z")
Whoa. Newark Airport is probably the worst airport in the history of flight. Ugly, smelly, poorly planned, and extremely expensive. It should be razed. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/94 "2003-10-17T09:50:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*Question: Are East St. Louis and East Cleveland considered to be cities in their own right, or are they mainly just suburbs of St. Louis and Cleveland, respectively? Are they populated enough to be cities unto themselves? \*\* I hear “East St. Louis” referred to as a seperate entity all the time, but I live in Cleveland and I don’t even know what “East Cleveland” is supposed to be. Is it a small city on the outskirts of Cleveland? A reference to the eastern end of the city? Dunno. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/95 "2003-10-17T14:20:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*Whoa. Newark Airport is probably the worst airport in the history of flight. Ugly, smelly, poorly planned, and extremely expensive. It should be razed. \*\* Come to Detroit’s Smith terminal. You will eat these words. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/96 "2003-10-17T14:27:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Amethyst Autumn \* > \*\*I’ve been there six times. It has nice shops, a good view of NYC, comfy chairs, abundant public transportation to NYC and a monorail. Newark’s ugly but the airport isn’t so bad. \*\* I’ll give you the shops, I like to browse through Brookstone and play with the back massagers as much as the next guy. But a good view? From where? A good view of Bayonne, maybe, if such a thing is possible. Abundant transportation to NYC? It damn well _better_ have! It’s one of the three New York Airports! That’s like praising Logan airport for its convenient transportation to Boston! I’m partial to tiny, one-teminal airports. When I fly out of Newark I always have to wait in long lines to deal with rude people and walk a mile to my gate. The smaller airports have fewer flights, of course, but I’m thankful when I can get one and avoid Newark. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/97 "2003-10-17T14:28:31Z")
By the way, isn’t this more of an IMHO thread? ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/98 "2003-10-17T14:36:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrankyAsAnOldMan \* > \*\*Come to Detroit’s Smith terminal. You will eat these words. \*\* Is that an invitation? Hmm. I think I’ve already been there. No, wait. I visited your state via car. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/99 "2003-10-17T15:51:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fessie \* > \*\*I haven’t been to any of the popular choices here (how did I manage that?), but do have a worst city to offer: > > Coatesville, PA \*\* Ooh! I grew up near there…yeah, it’s pretty bad for a small town. Norristown, PA’s another hell-hole – the gangrenous remains of a dead steel-mill industry. I just drove through central Nevada, and there are some places in the middle of that desert which, while they don’t count as cities, are hellaciously depressing. The little dot on the map will represent nothing but 30 decaying shacks, a truck stop, a furniture store, and two stop lights. Why in God’s almighty name those people don’t move and let the place dissolve into the sand is mind boggling. Baltimore, Newark, Detroit…they all richly deserve their places in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642/100 "2003-10-17T16:05:22Z")
> [@](#): > > YAY! I knew we’d get at least one vote! Actually Memphis does have its bad parts, but their mixed in with some average areas (so it’s not just one big area of ghetto), and in my opinion the good parts balance out the bad, and bring us right back up to ‘below average’. I’m sure if all Memphians pull together and work hard to screw things up we can overtake those arrogant Yankees in Baltimore and Gary, IN. At least we’re leading the nation in [fat-assedness](http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/local_news/article/0,1426,MCA_437_2351329,00.html). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-city-in-the-us/203642.md?page=6)