# What's the worst country? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 13, 2007, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684 "2007-03-13T00:00:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/1 "2007-03-13T00:00:32Z")
There have been other threads talking about the worst city in the US. Whether its ugliness, poverty, crime, etc., it invariably involved Gary, Camden, and E. St Louis. With that criteria, what would be the worst country? Not even third world, but dead in the water. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a country with active conflict (like Iraq or Somalia), but countries that don’t have a realistic chance of making it even in the “best” of times. Granted, most of these countries will have a degree of instability, but I guess I’m also talking about infrastructure, lack of resources, and general poverty. It’s a broad category, but I always find reading the anecdotes (especially of those who visited) fascinating. Niger Liberia Eritrea Haiti (so I’m not picking on Africa) Granted, some of the “third world” countries aren’t really that horrible. I was very surprised with how nice parts of Manila looked (from [my trip](http://philippines.dulcemichaelanya.com/Philippines2.htm) in 2004). So, it may be interesting to read about those. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/2 "2007-03-13T00:13:38Z")
What better than to just ask [the people that live in them.](http://www.quazen.com/Science/Social-Sciences/World-Happiness-Rankings.5398) Here are some results from a recent world happiness study by country (from less crappy to worst; the bottom 15). 155 Djibouti 156 Cameroon 157 Botswana 158 Turkmenistan 159 Equatorial Guinea 160 Ethiopia 161 Burkina Faso 162 Eritrea 163 Sudan 164 Uganda 165 Sierra Leone 166 Central African Republic 167 Zambia 168 Cote d’Ivoire 169 Angola 170 Niger 171 Chad 172 Rwanda 173 Malawi 174 Lesotho 175 Burundi 176 Congo, Dem. Rep. of the 177 Swaziland 178 Zimbabwe (Denmark came in 1st place in case you are wondering and it is partially attributed to low expectations. That stoner in the back of the class was right.) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/3 "2007-03-13T00:15:12Z")
No North Korea in that list. What, they didn’t let people take part in a survey? What kind of country is it? ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/4 "2007-03-13T00:19:31Z")
Whoa, EVERY SINGLE ONE is African!! Oh wait: “158 Turkmenistan” Did it replace Haiti and Yemen as the Token Non-African country? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/5 "2007-03-13T00:55:38Z")
I agree that not having North Korea in the top 20 makes that list suspect. I think the list of Failed States from the Fund For Peace could be more on the money: To be considered a failed state one has to check several indicators:: [http://www.fundforpeace.org/programs/fsi/fsindex2006.php](http://www.fundforpeace.org/programs/fsi/fsindex2006.php) > [@](#): > > The Twelve Indicators: > 1 - Mounting Demographic Pressures > 2 - Massive Movement of Refugees and IDPs > 3 - Legacy of Vengeance - Seeking Group Grievance > 4 - Chronic and Sustained Human Flight > 5 - Uneven Economic Development along Group Lines > 6 - Sharp and/or Severe Economic Decline > 7 - Criminalization or Delegitimization of the State > 8 - Progressive Deterioration of Public Services > 9 - Widespread Violation of Human Rights > 10 - Security Apparatus as “State within a State” > 11 - Rise of Factionalized Elites > 12 - Intervention of Other States or External Actors In the report of 2006, the top 20 failed states are: > [@](#): > > Quote: > 1 - Sudan > 2 - DR of Congo. > 3 - Cote d’Ivoire (Ivory Coast) > 4 - Iraq > 5 - Zimbabwe > 6 - Chad > 7 - Somalia > 8 - Haiti > 9 - Pakistan > 10 - Afghanistan > 11 - Guinea > 12 - Liberia > 13 - Central African Republic > 14 - North Korea > 15 - Burundi > 16 - Yemen > 17 - Sierra Leone > 18 - Burma/Myanmar > 19 - Bangladesh > 20 - Nepal ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/6 "2007-03-13T01:04:21Z")
I think Iraq would be high on that list. I’m biased, I just finished another year there, but it is hell on earth: a failed state that is also the nexus of an international conflict. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/7 "2007-03-13T01:44:22Z")
Thanks for the lists, puts an objective view on things. A few surprises, but the lists were pretty much what was expected. [QUOTE=madmonk28] I think Iraq would be high on that list. I’m biased, I just finished another year there, but it is hell on earth: a failed state that is also the nexus of an international conflict. [/QUOTE] But… but… aren’t we building schools there? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/8 "2007-03-13T02:09:06Z")
I’ll go with #6 on **GIGObuster** ’s linked list - Sharp and/or Severe Economic Decline. I feel that the remainder derive from that one single item. Some countries on the list have never known better. Iraq Zimbabwe Not necessarily in that order. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/9 "2007-03-13T03:18:15Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] I’ll go with #6 on **GIGObuster** ’s linked list - Sharp and/or Severe Economic Decline. [/QUOTE] Don’t forget [Sealand](http://www.sealandgov.org/) ! > [@](#): > > the Principality in late June of 2006 suffered a devastating fire which has crippled its infrastructure significantly. In common with other island countries, our resources here are limited; the difficulties this disaster presents are compounded by the effects upon our population and industries. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/10 "2007-03-13T04:55:53Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] (Denmark came in 1st place in case you are wondering and it is partially attributed to low expectations. That stoner in the back of the class was right.) [/QUOTE] You mean Switzerland, right? Denmark comes up at #11 on that list. My mind immediately went to Zimbabwe. Not only is it in terrible shape (and [getting worse](http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/Zimbabwe/0,9294,2-11-1662_2082439,00.html)), but the added fact that well within living memory it was a fairly stable, prosperous country has to rub all sorts of salt into those wounds. ---
**Author:** ![T\_SQUARE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@T\_SQUARE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T_SQUARE)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/11 "2007-03-13T05:49:45Z")
It seems to me that one should consider future prospects. Iraq and Burma, for example, have resources that at least give them a fighting chance, even if it’s going to take a while. Pakistan has relatively large number of educated citizens. Somalia and CAR? Smart money is probably on the snowball in Hell. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/12 "2007-03-13T06:23:43Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] 155 Djibouti 156 Cameroon 157 Botswana 158 Turkmenistan 159 Equatorial Guinea 160 Ethiopia 161 Burkina Faso 162 Eritrea 163 Sudan 164 Uganda 165 Sierra Leone 166 Central African Republic 167 Zambia 168 Cote d’Ivoire 169 Angola 170 Niger 171 Chad 172 Rwanda 173 Malawi 174 Lesotho 175 Burundi 176 Congo, Dem. Rep. of the 177 Swaziland 178 Zimbabwe [/QUOTE] According to an NPR program I listened to in the 90s (and which is thus unavailable for a specific cite), Africans seldom see themselves as citizens of a nation-state, and more commonly identify with a tribe; regardless of the actual conditions they live in, it’s not surprising that they see these entities they’re not really a part of as bleak crapfests. Based on PJ O’Rourke’s description of the place, I’d rank Albania (circa 1994) among the worst of the worst. It is fucked beyond repair or healing. Xeroxed US dollars were accepted as currency and the economy was wrecked multiple times by chain letters of the “Send five dollars to the last person on this list” variety. Those were the least of their problems. I’m not much of a world traveler. Canada is the only foreign country I’ve visited, and they seemed pretty solid. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/13 "2007-03-13T09:02:23Z")
[QUOTE=HubZilla] There have been other threads talking about the worst city in the US. Whether its ugliness, poverty, crime, etc., it invariably involved Gary, Camden, and E. St Louis. With that criteria, what would be the worst country? Not even third world, but dead in the water. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a country with active conflict (like Iraq or Somalia), but countries that don’t have a realistic chance of making it even in the “best” of times. Granted, most of these countries will have a degree of instability, but I guess I’m also talking about infrastructure, lack of resources, and general poverty. It’s a broad category, but I always find reading the anecdotes (especially of those who visited) fascinating. Niger Liberia Eritrea Haiti (so I’m not picking on Africa) Granted, some of the “third world” countries aren’t really that horrible. I was very surprised with how nice parts of Manila looked (from [my trip](http://philippines.dulcemichaelanya.com/Philippines2.htm) in 2004). So, it may be interesting to read about those. [/QUOTE] Sudan. Utterly wretched. Devoid of hope. Cut off from the outside world. Violent. Miserable geography. Unrepairable. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/14 "2007-03-13T13:03:14Z")
My vote would be for Zimbabwe. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/15 "2007-03-13T13:23:49Z")
[QUOTE=Krokodil] Based on PJ O’Rourke’s description of the place, I’d rank Albania (circa 1994) among the worst of the worst. It is fucked beyond repair or healing. Xeroxed US dollars were accepted as currency and the economy was wrecked multiple times by chain letters of the “Send five dollars to the last person on this list” variety. Those were the least of their problems. [/QUOTE] Yeah, well if you’d just emerged from one of the most repressive regimes on the planet, I bet you’d need some time to adjust as well. Albania is doing much better. The economy is growing pretty fast, and has been since about 2000. And while the country does have problems, it is an emerging democracy with a market economy, and is nowhere near the basket case some other countries mentioned here are. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/16 "2007-03-13T16:26:12Z")
[QUOTE=Chief Pedant] Sudan. Utterly wretched. Devoid of hope. Cut off from the outside world. Violent. Miserable geography. Unrepairable. [/QUOTE] I’ve been to Khartoum, they are potentially quite viable. Basically they have a tribal insurgency problem in Darfour, which is spilling over into Chad. We should be helping them (N. Sudan), but they don’t trust us. I can’t say that I blame them, UN forces are animated sandbags. ---
**Author:** ![T\_SQUARE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@T\_SQUARE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T_SQUARE)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/17 "2007-03-13T16:31:04Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] I’ve been to Khartoum, they are potentially quite viable. Basically they have a tribal insurgency problem in Darfour, which is spilling over into Chad. We should be helping them (N. Sudan), but they don’t trust us. I can’t say that I blame them, UN forces are animated sandbags. [/QUOTE] I saw some footage of Khartoum that made it actually look pretty damn nice, at least along the banks of the Nile. I hear Mad Dog has a big place there. ---
**Author:** ![Lush\_Puppy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Lush\_Puppy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lush_Puppy)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/18 "2007-03-13T17:09:52Z")
[QUOTE=HubZilla] Granted, some of the “third world” countries aren’t really that horrible. I was very surprised with how nice parts of Manila looked (from [my trip](http://philippines.dulcemichaelanya.com/Philippines2.htm) in 2004). So, it may be interesting to read about those. [/QUOTE] That’s because we’re a Newly Industrialized Country, not Third World. Anyway, the lists as they come up so far on SDMB looks like a list of Fourth World or Least Developed Countries. Behold, [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Least_Developed_Countries). ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoderk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cryptoderk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoderk)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/19 "2007-03-13T17:14:11Z")
I could imagine having fun in any country except North Korea. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684/20 "2007-03-13T17:19:32Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] My vote would be for Zimbabwe. [/QUOTE] I spent some time in Zimbabwe in summer 2001, and although things were going down the pan pretty sharply at that point, I have to say that I don’t think the country itself is beyond repair, as per the OP. Certainly it is not an unattractive place; on the contrary much of it is stunningly beautiful, and it has plenty of natural scenery to pull in the tourists. (Victoria Falls, for one; Matopos National Park for another.) If Mugabe goes _soon_ then there is a good chance it will bounce back pretty quickly. The country still has a lot of resources; it’s a fertile place unlike some of the dustbowls of central/subsaharan Africa. Just as a measure of how rapidly things have gone downhill in that time: when I was there, £1 bought about 250 Zim dollars (on the black market – officially it was about 80). By summer 2006, that figure was over 1,000,000. The dollar was revalued, with one new dollar worth 1,000 old dollars. Currently £1 buys about 20,000 _new_ dollars, or 20 million old ones. From the [Wikipedia page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwean_dollar): > [@](#): > > On May 29 [2006], Reserve Bank officials told IRIN that plans to print about Zim$60 trillion (about US$592.9 million at official rates) were briefly delayed after the government failed to secure foreign currency to buy ink and special paper for printing money. They couldn’t even afford the paper and ink to print new banknotes. There is something uniquely sad about that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-country/395684.md?page=2)