# What's the worst thing Antifa has ever done? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 5, 2020, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339 "2020-08-05T15:26:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/41 "2020-08-09T05:41:24Z")
I am a self described member of the X-Men. Am I a member of the X-Men? (please say “yes”) If I am then what does that mean? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/42 "2020-08-09T05:53:08Z")
No, you are then a _self described member of the X-Men._. Are you deliberately trying to be dense? What is your point? Are you trying to say that you cant _claim_ to be a member of antifa? What is stopping you? The membership Secretary asking for your card? The OP didnt ask for things that _members_ of antifa had done, he asked for things that _self described member of Antifa_ had done. See the difference- can you read those two words= " self described"? Are you having problems comprehending that term? What is it about the term “self described” that you dont understand? Here : _self-described_ _/ˌselfdəˈskrībd/_ **adjective** _1. denoting a category to which one belongs according to one’s own description._ Do you need another definition? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/43 "2020-08-09T05:59:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, you are then a _self described member of the X-Men._ . > > Are you deliberately trying to be dense? What is your point? Being a self described member of an organization is meaningless. The whole point to an organization is that the organization collects people based on some shared theme they all have in common. Me saying I belong to an organization that doesn’t exist makes no sense. It is madness. “I belong to the Argisnle Organization!” So? WTF does that mean? Absolutely nothing. Why? Because there is no such thing. Not sure why you can’t wrap your head around the notion that belonging to a non-existent organization does not mean anything to the world at large. It may mean something to that person but it also means something totally different to the next person who claims that. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/44 "2020-08-09T06:05:03Z")
Let me refer you back to the OP: _What is the most heinous thing any self-described member of Antifa has ever been convicted of doing?_ ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/45 "2020-08-09T06:07:00Z")
Define “Antifa”. That is no different than asking, “_What is the most heinous thing any self-described member of X-Men has ever been convicted of doing?_” ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/46 "2020-08-09T07:10:20Z")
Whack-a-Mole wrote: > Being a self described member of an organization is meaningless. > > The whole point to an organization is that the organization collects people based on some shared theme they all have in common. There’s a reason I chose that phrasing. In another forum, a dedicated anti-fascist posted a link to the effect that zero deaths have been attributed to anti-fascists. I countered with a link about the Dayton mass shooter, who certainly considered himself to be anti-fascist. He replied that the Dayton mass shooter wasn’t an actual member of any established Antifa group, which sounds to me suspiciously like “Yes, but he was no TRUE Scotsman!” Who is a Christian? Catholics, Unitarians and Mormons all consider themselves to be Christians, but don’t necessarily extend the descriptor to each other. If I ask you whether or not you’re a Christian, I’m not interested whether the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury considers you one, and might not even hold their endorsements in your favor. I’m asking if YOU consider yourself one. Antifa is the Schrodinger’s Cat of political organizations. They are or aren’t one depending on the rewards or consequences of being one in a specific situation. I’m more interested in whether an individual considers himself Antifa than whether some local splinter cell does. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/47 "2020-08-09T07:23:24Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > He replied that the Dayton mass shooter wasn’t an actual member of any established Antifa group, which sounds to me suspiciously like “Yes, but he was no TRUE Scotsman!” Yeah…but there is no such group. Why is this hard to understand? Scotsmen exist. Christians exist. Unitarians exist. Mormons exist. Antifa does not. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/48 "2020-08-09T07:34:45Z")
It does not matter that the organization does not exist. What matters is if a person declares that they are a member of that organization. It is that declarant who is making a nonsensical statement. The question posed here is not if that declaration makes sense, but what is the worst thing such a declarant has done. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/49 "2020-08-09T11:52:41Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Yeah…but there is no such group. > > Why is this hard to understand? It depends on your definition of “group”. There is no organization that calls itself Antifa that has a central organizational structure or centralized leadership. Wikipedia calls it a political movement comprising of autonomous groups. It may be more grammatically correct to refer to Antifa as a movement than a group, but referring to Antifa is actually referring to something. It’s not like we’re discussing the Coalition of Invisible Pink Unicorns here. Antifa is actually a “thing”. Let’s have no more bickering in this thread over whether or not Antifa exists. It clearly exists. For the purposes of this thread, let’s stick to the wikipedia definition of Antifa. > [@](#): > > **Antifa** ([/ænˈtiːfə, ˈæntiˌfɑː/](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English))[[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_%28United_States%29#cite_note-1) is an [anti-fascist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-fascist) [political movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_movement) in the United States[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_%28United_States%29#cite_note-2)[[3]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_%28United_States%29#cite_note-3)[[4]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_%28United_States%29#cite_note-4)[[5]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_%28United_States%29#cite_note-5) comprising a diverse[[6]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_%28United_States%29#cite_note-6)[[7]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_%28United_States%29#cite_note-klein-7) array of [autonomous](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaderless_resistance) groups that aim to achieve their objectives through the use of both non-violent and violent [direct action](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_action) rather than through policy [reform](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform).[[8]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_%28United_States%29#cite_note-bbcantifa-8)[[9]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_%28United_States%29#cite_note-9) Given that Antifa has no centralized structure and doesn’t issue membership cards and the like, for the purposes of this thread, we can assume that a “member of Antifa” is anyone who self-identifies as such. ---
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/50 "2020-08-09T12:14:28Z")
Portland’s mayor has a possible answer for the OP: [Mayor Wheeler on rioters setting fire at Portland police building: ‘You are attempting to commit murder’](https://www.kptv.com/news/mayor-wheeler-on-rioters-setting-fire-at-portland-police-building-you-are-attempting-to-commit/article_8e01541e-d839-11ea-8736-4b746b521476.html) ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/51 "2020-08-09T13:32:30Z")
Whack-a-Mole wrote: > Define “Antifa”. Done; see above. > That is no different than asking, “ _What is the most heinous thing any self-described member of X-Men has ever been convicted of doing?_ ” Well, I haven’t followed the title in a while. But unless somebody has topped Phoenix killing a star system and its inhabitants, I’d go with that. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/52 "2020-08-09T15:33:59Z")
Then there was the June 23 assault on Senator Tim Carpenter. Of course, he did provoke them—he took a photograph. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/53 "2020-08-09T16:11:06Z")
> [@3AxisCtrl](#): > > Portland’s mayor has a possible answer for the OP: > [@mbh](#): > > Then there was the June 23 assault on Senator Tim Carpenter. The OP asked about self identified antifa. I don’t see anywhere where they described themselves as such. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/54 "2020-08-09T16:17:43Z")
Unfortunately, the OP asks two questions, one of which is GQ, and the other distinctly isn’t. “What’s the worst thing Antifa (or self described antifa) has ever done?” is a question with a factual answer. The last line of the OP, “How worried should I actually be that they are out to burn, say, Portland to the ground?” is not. I would say that the first question has been adequately addressed, and the thread should be moved to a more appropriate location to address the second. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/55 "2020-08-09T16:23:11Z")
**Moderator Action** > [@k9bfriender](#): > > I would say that the first question has been adequately addressed, and the thread should be moved to a more appropriate location to address the second. I agree. Moving from GQ to IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/56 "2020-08-09T17:46:42Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > How worried should I actually be that they are out to burn, say, Portland to the ground? You should not be worried at all. The conflation in your OP of “self described” antifa, along with concerns about what this “organization” may do is a bit dissonant. If I asked, “What is the worst thing that a self described Christian has ever done?”, and then followed that up with, “How worried should I be that they are out to say, start an inquisition?” Then it would be very justifiably assumed that I plan to judge all Christians by the worst thing that I can find that _any_ self described Christian has done. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/57 "2020-08-09T17:55:26Z")
The thread title says “has ever done” but the OP specifies “has ever been convicted of doing”; those are two very different things. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/58 "2020-08-09T18:54:17Z")
I see nothing to indicate those two women claimed to be antifa. > **[Two Women Charged in Attack on Wisconsin State Senator (Published 2020)](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/29/us/wisconsin-tim-carpenter-attacked.html)** > > Tim Carpenter said he was punched and kicked after he recorded video of demonstrators at a protest in the capital, Madison, last month. > **[Suspects arrested after attack on State Senator Tim Carpenter](https://wtmj.com/news/2020/07/27/suspects-arrested-after-attack-on-state-senator-tim-carpenter/)** > > Police have arrested two women who allegedly beat a Democratic state senator from Milwaukee during a protest at the State Capitol in June. Samantha Hamer, You could say they were BLM just as well. Or just protestors. Or women would dont like to be recorded by “creepy men”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/59 "2020-08-09T18:56:50Z")
And not only not convicted but not “self described members of antifa”. So I retract my claim that the assault on him qualifies. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339/60 "2020-08-10T10:23:56Z")
Snowboarder\_Bo wrote: > The thread title says “has ever done” but the OP specifies “has ever been convicted of doing”; those are two very different things. Without an arrest and a conviction, how would we know it was Antifa and not a right wing provocateur? The lasers to policemen’s eyes sounds like them, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-worst-thing-antifa-has-ever-done/917339.md?page=4)