# What's This Sci-Fi Book Series? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 22, 2000, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868 "2000-10-22T10:46:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2000, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/21 "2000-10-22T18:53:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zen101 \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Ankh\_Too \* > > \*\* > > I’m pretty sure it’s the Gor Books by John Norman. Not only did he cave in and write sequels, but after he died, others continued the parade of excrement. I’ve heard the annectdote attributed to that series of books before, but never from such a reputable source as Spider. And having tried to read at least one of them, I’m emotionally, intellectually and aesthetically prepared to declare them the winner by default. > > > > They suck canal water. Love\*\* Canal water. > > > > \*\* > > John Norman (real name Professor John Lange) is dead? I was part of a three way phone conversation with him about four years back. I hadn’t heard he had died. > > Judging from that conversation, he would be out of the running for intentionally bad book writing. He thought quite well of his stories and only underpublicized himself because of backlash to the content. He caught a lot of shit from feminists because of content. > > \*\* There are people (typically into the dominant/submissive lifestyle sub-culture) who apparently _live_ this GOR lifestyle nonsense 24/7. This article must be seen to be believed. [http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2000/05/18/gor/index.html](http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2000/05/18/gor/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2000, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/22 "2000-10-22T18:58:36Z")
The first book title that popped into my mind was _Naked Came The Stranger_, published under the pseudonym “Penelope Asche”. From [this page](http://scoop.crosswinds.net/humor/naked.html) about the book: > [@](#): > > [Long Island Newsday editor Mike] McGrady was shocked by [sex novelist Harold] Robbins claim to have received a then-mind-boggling advance of $2 million for a book he hadn’t even begun to write, and did what any aspiring (if not self-respecting) science-minded journalist would have done: he set out to see whether he might duplicate Robbins’ dubious accomplishment. He decided to pen a brutally written book - a book unparalleled in its awful unparallelability - just to see how (indeed whether) it would be recieved by publishers3 and the so-called “reading public”. Thus was born _Naked Came the Stranger_ by “Penelope Asche”. > > McGrady drafted an outline about a suburban house wife who gets even with her philandering husband by seducing married men. No ordinary suburban house wife - or is she? > > Next, McGrady recruited 24 Newsday reporters, each of whom would contribute a single chapter to the glorious enterprise. And glorious it would be: each chapter would contain no fewer than two (2) sexual episodes - at least one (1) of which would be of a “bizarre” nature. “There will be an unremitting emphasis on sex,” McGrady said. “True excellence in writing will be blue-pencilled into oblivion.” With a draft completed in two short weeks, McGrady had his sister-in-law, posing as Penelope Asche, shop it around to New York’s finest publishing houses, one of which, Dell (no relation to the computer maker), actually bought it - for $37,000! > > Incredibly, _Naked Came the Stranger_ was published in 1970 - and became a national bestseller, selling 20,000 copies in its first month, thanks in part to “Penelope Asche”, who made numerous TV and radio appearances to plug the book. > > McGrady eventually revealed the hoax, but sales remained strong, going through seven printings (90,000 copies) in four months. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2000, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/23 "2000-10-22T19:47:56Z")
You know, folks, Robinson’s quote does not specify Science Fiction or Fantasy. Could the story (still possibly a UL, in my mind) actually refer to a mystery, a kids’ series, a romance (not a _romans_) or some other genre? Could we get Ike, Eve, or Manny to look at this thread? (I’ll start off by taking the Oz books out of the running. Baum may have wearily written some of his later stuff just for bucks, but there is no evidence that the original was written on a bet–especially to see if “bad” would sell.) ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2000, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/24 "2000-10-22T20:28:50Z")
Not that I think he’s a bad writer, but has anyone considered Robert E. Howard. ---
**Author:** ![Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f0a364/32.png) [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rube_E.Tewesday)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2000, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/25 "2000-10-22T20:59:19Z")
I first thought of Robert Heinlein and his Ayn Rand for the retarded books, but then I remembered that Robinson is actually a disciple of Heinlein’s. If it’s not the Gor crapathon, I suspect urban legend. Slight hijack – someone mentioned The Iron Dream. Well worth hunting down, for those who aren’t familiar with it. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2000, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/26 "2000-10-22T22:18:24Z")
First, whoever wrote that article on _Naked Came the Stranger_ misspelled the author’s name. It’s Penelope Ashe. I don’t think any of the authors mentioned so far could be the one mentioned in the story told by Spicer Robinson. In fact, the more I think about it, the more likely I think that’s it’s an apocryphal story. Let me go through each of the authors mentioned so far: Not Ian Fleming. The novels aren’t that bad, there aren’t enough of them, and Fleming seemed to believe in them. Not L. Ron Hubbard. During his time as a pulp writer, he didn’t do series, and he didn’t consider his stuff that bad. _Battlefield Earth_ was only one book. _Mission Earth_ didn’t come out till after his death. There were never a large contingent of fans demanding sequels in any case, just a church that was eager to publish all his books whether anyone liked them or not. Not Edgar Rice Burroughs. There’s no sign that he disliked any of his work. It’s really not bad stuff for a pulp writer. Not Robert Jordan. Not enough books, and there’s no sign that he dislikes his works. Not Marion Zimmer Bradley. She liked her Darkover books, even if she did think that some fans took them too seriously. Not Terry Brooks. He likes his books and there’s really not enough of them. Perhaps you can blame Lester Del Rey (who rewrote some of the first book), but not the fans. Not Piers Anthony. He likes his books. Not A. E. Van Vogt. Not enough books. Not Stephen Donaldson. He likes his books. Again, perhaps you can blame his editor Lester Del Rey, but not his fans. Not Norman Spinrad. He knows that _The Iron Dream_ was written in a deliberately pulpy style, and fans of the book know it too. Anyway, it’s just one book. Not Alan Dean Foster. No series is long enough. Not L. Frank Baum. It’s good stuff, and there’s no reason to think that Baum dislike the Oz books. Not Penelope Ashe. That was only one book. Not Robert Heinlein. Robinson is Heinlein’s greatest fan, and Heinlein didn’t do sequels anyway. I don’t believe this story. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2000, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/27 "2000-10-22T22:28:31Z")
Oh, one more: Not Robert E. Howard. The Conan stories didn’t get into novel form until after his death, and Howard’s own writing isn’t that bad. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2000, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/28 "2000-10-22T22:29:40Z")
I wrote: \> Spicer Robinson Ahhhhh!!! Spider Robinson, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2000, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/29 "2000-10-22T23:43:26Z")
Wow, thanks for all the responses! I had assumed it was a somewhat trivial question that would be answered fairly quickly, merely being some common anecdote of which I was ignorant. I do know a little more which could rule out some of the guesses; he also says: > [@](#): > > I _can’t_ tell you his name: his estate might sue, and I have no documentation. Ask around at any SF convention; it’s a reasonably famous anecdote. He doesn’t really indicate whether he actually believes the story to be true, or if it’s just a tall tale that’s grown over the years. He mentions “SF convention”, so it apparently is a sci-fi/fantasy series. He also mentions “his estate”, which I take to imply the author is dead, but I can’t be sure of that. Additionally, the foreword was written in 1976, which can rule out some of the possibilities. It doesn’t seem like he’s just making the story up; on the other hand, he isn’t insisting it’s necessarily true, either, but he does say it’s “reasonably famous”. ---
**Author:** ![CopperTears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5fc32e/32.png) [@CopperTears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CopperTears)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/30 "2000-10-23T01:26:18Z")
Ron Hubbard seems likely. Not only did he write science fiction in childishly simple terms, but eventually he created his own religion and moved on to found Scientology, where the secret of life, liberty, happiness, the universe and everything is based on the primordial clam. Now he gets to have people worship him as a genius, fill his coffers with coin, occasionally publishes a crappy book about the meaning of the ‘clam’ (NO, not THAT type of clam), and screws with his followers minds and probably not a few of their women. ---
**Author:** ![Narile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@Narile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Narile)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/31 "2000-10-23T01:36:27Z")
Considering that Spider is pretty well read, don’t limit yourself to SF for the series. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/32 "2000-10-23T01:48:43Z")
Oh, I think we can eliminate John Norman, as well. According to the _Encyclopedia of Science Fiction_, he’s still alive, or at least, was in 1995, and he only has two books other than the _Gor_ series, so he’s not likely to have made the bet in the first place. If anyone can think of any keywords I might look up in the index, I might be able to say more. I honestly can’t think of any series that went more than two dozen books… Barsoom was nowhere near there, and even Xanth hasn’t gone quite that far yet (besides, everyone knows that Xanth is only a trilogy). ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/33 "2000-10-23T02:50:22Z")
No, this story does not fit L. Ron Hubbard. During his days as a pulp writer, he mostly did short stories, and he turned out acceptable pulp fiction. He never did any series during that time. During his time as the head of Dianetics/Scientology, the only books he wrote were _Battlefield Earth_ (which was only one book) and _Mission Earth_ (which was a series, but only appeared after his death. At no point did he have fans clamoring for future books. You may not like Hubbard (and I don’t either), but nothing about this story fits him. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/34 "2000-10-23T03:23:11Z")
How about Zane Grey? He can’t possibly have liked every book that was published under his name. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/35 "2000-10-23T03:46:05Z")
OK. When did the author who wrote under the name E. E. “Doc” Smith die? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/36 "2000-10-23T04:45:41Z")
My guess would be the Dumarest books by EC Tubb. There were about 30 or so books in the series. They were humdrum scifi trash with all the originality of a Harlequin Romance[sup]1[/sup]. I don’t know if the first one was written to be so bad as to be unpublishable, but it could easily have been. [sup]1[/sup] Apologies to Harlequin for insulting its Romances. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/37 "2000-10-23T05:27:21Z")
Edward Elmer Smith (his real name, but the “Doc” part was fictitious), 1890-1965. Judging from the EoSF entry, neither the _Skylark of Space_ series nor the _Lensman_ books seem to match the annecdote, those being his only two series. I’ve really got to read those, one of these days. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/38 "2000-10-23T16:42:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cabbage \* > \*\*In the forward to his book _Callahan’s Crosstime Saloon_, Spider Robinson writes: > > > [@](#): > > > > One of my favorite anecdotes concerns a writer who bet a friend that it was literally impossible to write a book so B_A_D that no one could be found to publish it. As the story goes, this writer proceeded to write the worst, most hackneyed novel of which he was capable–and not only did he succeed in selling it, _the public demanded better than two dozen sequels_ > > He goes on to say that it’s a reasonably famous anecdote. Now I’m intrigued. Anyone here know what series he’s referring to? \*\* I always thought it was the GOR series, but someone pointed out the “estate might sue” comment, which rules that out. Several clues: The anecdote appears in either Callahan’s Crosstime which was published in +/- 1977. Robinson had heard the anecdote before then, so let’s say it refers to someone who died before 1975. That rules out L.Ron (the Mission Earth stuff was early '80s), Terry Brooks, (the Shannara book was originally a stand-alone), Robert Jordan (who didn’t start pumping out Extruded Fantasy Product until 199?), Piers Anthony, who’d only written his first few Xanth books by then (and at that point, Anthony was a fairly well respected mid-list author) I can’t think of many series with “more than 2 dozen” books, especially in 1975. Bradley’s Darkover stuff, maybe, but she was still alive and, in the mid-70’s was writing some cutting edge stuff (The Forbidden Tower, Heritage of Hastur). Besides, she was originally a Big Time Fan. I can’t see her taking a bet like that. Baum and Burroughs have been discussed and disproven. I’m not sure if or when E.C. Tubb died, but his Dumarest of Terra stuff (which I’m completely unfamiliar with) has a ton of sequels and is in roughly the right time period.) … \<10 minutes pass\> Ater a bit of research, E.C. Tubb (who has about 3 billion pseudonyms) was apparently still alive and well as of mid 2000. (And, as of 1978, only had about 16-18 Dumarest of Terra books). Ergo, it’s not Tubb. So, I dunno. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/39 "2000-10-23T16:57:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Edward Elmer Smith (his real name, but the “Doc” part was fictitious), 1890-1965. “Doc” was quite legitimate; he was often listed as “E. E. Smith, Ph. D.” His doctorate was in food sciences, and one of his important discoveries in the field was an improved way to make sugar stick to a donut. I think Spider was pulling our legs. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868/40 "2000-10-23T17:37:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > Ater a bit of research, E.C. Tubb (who has about 3 billion pseudonyms) was apparently still alive and well as of mid 2000. (And, as of 1978, only had about 16-18 Dumarest of Terra books). Ergo, it’s not Tubb. Well, you have to admit that this was a better guess than most in this thread. I’m trying to think of what large series were occupying the bookstore shelves in the mid-70s, and all I can think of are the Perry Rhodan books. But if I understand correctly, these were originally in German and written by several different writers, like the Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys books. And there were lots more than a couple dozen, more like a hundred or so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-this-sci-fi-book-series/37868.md?page=3)