# What's to stop me from pillaging the Philadelphia Museum of Art? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 1, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516 "2009-01-01T22:46:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/1 "2009-01-01T22:46:17Z")
While visiting relatives in Media PA I took my son to the [Philadelphia Museum of Art.](http://www.philamuseum.org/) It was a fine museum and we had a great time looking at the exhibits. One thing that stuck me was that all the guards seemed to be mainly unarmed older men and women or young girls plus a few really skinny artsy types. If I assembled a team of 10 burly men and decided to gather up some arm fulls of selected fine art who’s to stop me and this Viking horde before we get to the entrance and make our getaway down the steps? This was Sunday and I didn’t see single armed guard anywhere. This is strictly a hypothetical as I don’t want Philly dopers (and you know who you are) to turn me in to the popos. It just didn’t seem to be all that well guarded given the value of these priceless works. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/2 "2009-01-01T22:55:46Z")
In this electronic day and age, it’s likely the guards are there more as a deterrent to casual vandalism and to ensure the museum’s rules are obeyed, e.g., no photography or touching the displays, than for actual security. That role is most likely taken up primarily by video and other electronic surveillance. Rather than needing a large and expensive security staff, a single, central monitoring office manned by just a few people can more efficiently watch over the entire premises, at a greatly reduced cost. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/3 "2009-01-01T23:00:35Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > In this electronic day and age, it’s likely the guards are there more as a deterrent to casual vandalism and to ensure the museum’s rules are obeyed, e.g., no photography or touching the displays, than for actual security. That role is most likely taken up primarily by video and other electronic surveillance. Rather than needing a large and expensive security staff, a single, central monitoring office manned by just a few people can more efficiently watch over the entire premises, at a greatly reduced cost. Hmmm… fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/4 "2009-01-01T23:12:24Z")
Maybe not much. The Isabella Stuart Gardner museum in Boston was the victim of this in the early 1990’s to the tune of $300 million dollars worth of lost art. All it took was two thieves pretending to be police officers in the middle of the night who tied up a couple of unarmed guards and had their way with the place. They were never caught and none of the art-work has ever resurfaced. [http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/11/26/ctv.traces.museum.heist/](http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/11/26/ctv.traces.museum.heist/) ---
**Author:** ![Monstera\_deliciosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monstera_deliciosa/32/109_2.png) [@Monstera\_deliciosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstera_deliciosa)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/5 "2009-01-01T23:32:31Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > In this electronic day and age, it’s likely the guards are there more as a deterrent to casual vandalism and to ensure the museum’s rules are obeyed, e.g., no photography or touching the displays, than for actual security. That role is most likely taken up primarily by video and other electronic surveillance. Rather than needing a large and expensive security staff, a single, central monitoring office manned by just a few people can more efficiently watch over the entire premises, at a greatly reduced cost. As a former museum security guard (and harmless-looking woman) I used to tell visitors who asked this question that there is more to museum security than meets the eye. Back then, I was not permitted to elaborate. But in addition, to what **Q.E.D.** has correctly posted, any major museum is likely to have more firearms on the premises than you would have noticed upon casual observation, undercover security guards keeping an eye on persons exhibiting suspicious behavior, and electronics that will lock exit doors at a moment’s notice. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/6 "2009-01-02T02:56:07Z")
> [@Monstera\_deliciosa](#): > > But in addition, to what **Q.E.D.** has correctly posted, any major museum is likely to have more firearms on the premises than you would have noticed upon casual observation, undercover security guards keeping an eye on persons exhibiting suspicious behavior, and electronics that will lock exit doors at a moment’s notice. I assume that the self-sealing exits are what really protects the merchandise, right? I mean, if those locking mechanisms didn’t exist, is the average metropolitan museum really in a position to handle six guys with fully automatic weapons and a concrete plan of action? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/7 "2009-01-02T03:00:22Z")
What? You couldn’t have told us this before we did our Christmas shopping? ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/8 "2009-01-02T04:39:26Z")
Art is hard to fence too. No one steals art unless they have a deal set up to sell it. Art has no real worth just what people assign to it. Since art is well known you can’t just steal it and sell it to another museum. You have to have a buyer, and since that buyer won’t be able to do much with it, but stick it in his house, the buyer is gonna be awfully picky about what he contracts to get stolen. So that may also have something to do with it, in some ways art is less valuable than you’d think. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/9 "2009-01-02T05:17:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Art is hard to fence too. No one steals art unless they have a deal set up to sell it. > > Art has no real worth just what people assign to it. Since art is well known you can’t just steal it and sell it to another museum. You have to have a buyer, and since that buyer won’t be able to do much with it, but stick it in his house, the buyer is gonna be awfully picky about what he contracts to get stolen. > > So that may also have something to do with it, in some ways art is less valuable than you’d think. That was the scam behind the theft of the Mona Lisa. The masterminds behind the crime knew that their “clients” would never be able to talk about owning the stolen painting. So they contacted several known purchasers of stolen art, got an agreed price for how much they’d pay for the Mona Lisa, and then arranged to have it stolen. And which of their potential buyers did they make the sale to? All of them. They ran off a bunch of forgeries and sold one to everyone who had expressed an interest. Each of who believed he was buying the original. It’s not like they were going to compare notes. And the actual Mona Lisa? The masterminds never touched it. They knew that the likeliest way for them to be caught was by the police following the trail of the stolen painting so they never contacted the thief after he stole it - it was unnecessary as all they needed was for the painting to be stolen so they could plausibly claim to have it. The thief eventually figured out he had been abandoned so he tried to fence it himself and was arrested. When this happened and the painting was recovered, the buyers must have realized they had been duped. But they obviously couldn’t make any complaints. The masterminds were never arrested. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/10 "2009-01-02T05:39:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That was the scam behind the theft of the Mona Lisa. The masterminds behind the crime knew that their “clients” would never be able to talk about owning the stolen painting. So they contacted several known purchasers of stolen art, got an agreed price for how much they’d pay for the Mona Lisa, and then arranged to have it stolen. > > And which of their potential buyers did they make the sale to? All of them. They ran off a bunch of forgeries and sold one to everyone who had expressed an interest. Each of who believed he was buying the original. It’s not like they were going to compare notes. > > And the actual Mona Lisa? The masterminds never touched it. They knew that the likeliest way for them to be caught was by the police following the trail of the stolen painting so they never contacted the thief after he stole it - it was unnecessary as all they needed was for the painting to be stolen so they could plausibly claim to have it. The thief eventually figured out he had been abandoned so he tried to fence it himself and was arrested. When this happened and the painting was recovered, the buyers must have realized they had been duped. But they obviously couldn’t make any complaints. > > The masterminds were never arrested. Cite? (Because it sounds interesting, not because it doesn’t seem plausible) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/11 "2009-01-02T05:59:24Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > Art has no real worth just what people assign to it. Please name something that has “real worth,” other than “what people assign to it.” ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/12 "2009-01-02T06:05:44Z")
I’m fairly sure that a museum whose security consisted of legions of ninjas with machine guns would have a tricky time getting art patrons through the front door. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/13 "2009-01-02T06:07:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Cite? (Because it sounds interesting, not because it doesn’t seem plausible) I read it in _Scams, Scandals, and Skulduggery: A Selection of the World’s Most Outrageous Frauds_ by Andreas Schroeder. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/14 "2009-01-02T06:37:59Z")
If the masterminds were never caught, and the buyers never complained, and the thief wasn’t in on the scam part, how does anyone know that this happened? ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/15 "2009-01-02T07:02:33Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Please name something that has “real worth,” other than “what people assign to it.” He means it doesn’t have a standard value, as opposed to, say, a dollar or a pound of gold, which will get you something no matter where you take/exchange it. And yes, you could conceive of a society that doesn’t place a value on these things, but they don’t exist. Art, on the other hand, does not have this universal value. For example, I would not be interested in a stolen Picasso painting because I wouldn’t particularly want to put it in my house, and I wouldn’t be able to sell it to anyone else without getting arrested. Valete, Vox Imperatoris ETA: **Nametag** , good catch. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/16 "2009-01-02T07:38:59Z")
Thanks. I looked this up, and it appears the whole story is from the alleged mastermind himself, an Argentinian conman named Eduardo de Valfierno, as told to reporter Karl Decker: > [@](#): > > In 1931, a reporter named Karl Decker revealed information that was passed onto him seventeen years earlier by a man named Marque’ Eduardo de Valfierno. Decker stated that the interview took place in Jan/1914, but Valfierno swore him to secrecy until after his death. Valfierno was a con man who sold fake Spanish masters, such as Bartolome’ Murillo, in Buenos Aires. His partner, Yves Chaudron, was a conservator and master forger. > > Valfierno was a master at profiting on other larcenous minds such as his own. He would show a dishonest, wealthy tourist in Buenos Aires a painting in a museum, and convince him that he could steal it and deliver it to them in their native land. After delivering a copy of the painting, he would fake newspaper clippings that announced the theft. If the duped party ever questioned him about the same painting that still hung in the museum, he would reassure them that the museum was too ashamed to admit that a painting had been stolen, and was displaying a fake. Even if the unscrupulous customer did not believe this explanation, he could not report it to the police. > > In 1910, Valfierno moved his operation to France. Yves Chaudron rented a studio in the bohemian artist district, Montmarte. Valfierno alleged that he convinced Perugia to steal the MonaLisa, so they could sell it for a fortune. Chaudron did not really want to sell the painting, nor did he even care where it ended up. His plan was for Chaudron to make several copies and sell all of them as the original to foreign collectors. He counted on a huge amount of press on the theft, so his greedy buyers would be aware that the painting was at large and available for their greedy fingers to grab. If the MonaLisa was ever recovered and returned to the Louvre, he would assure his customers that the Louvre was displaying a fake because it could not admit losing a national treasure of France. This story is from an art crime website called [yourbrushwiththelaw.com](http://yourbrushwiththelaw.com) I haven’t found primary sources yet, but the reporter might be the same Karl Decker who, working for W.R. Hearst’s New York Journal, conducted a daring jailbreak in Cuba: [http://academic2.american.edu/~wjc/nothoax.htm](http://academic2.american.edu/~wjc/nothoax.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/17 "2009-01-02T08:08:33Z")
Anyway, the original story by Decker was in _The Saturday Evening Post_, in 1932 (“Why and How the Mona Lisa Was Stolen,” Saturday Evening Post 204 no. 52:14-15, 89-92). AFAICT, this is the only evidence that the thief, a museum contractor named Vincenzo Perugia, was not acting on his own, as he claimed during his trial. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/18 "2009-01-02T13:39:39Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Please name something that has “real worth,” other than “what people assign to it.” Water. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/19 "2009-01-02T15:37:07Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Please name something that has “real worth,” other than “what people assign to it.” I think the point is that valuable art is not a fungible good. You can’t throw it into a pile of art at the farmers market and just expect that it will be bought through ordinary commerce at the price at which you hope to get (millions of dollars). ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/20 "2009-01-02T15:45:34Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Please name something that has “real worth,” other than “what people assign to it.” Nevermind [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516.md?page=2)