# What's to stop me from pillaging the Philadelphia Museum of Art? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 1, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516 "2009-01-01T22:46:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Monstera\_deliciosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monstera_deliciosa/32/109_2.png) [@Monstera\_deliciosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstera_deliciosa)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/21 "2009-01-02T17:02:34Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > I assume that the self-sealing exits are what really protects the merchandise, right? I mean, if those locking mechanisms didn’t exist, is the average metropolitan museum really in a position to handle six guys with fully automatic weapons and a concrete plan of action? I didn’t mean to imply that museums are armed fortresses invulnerable to every eventuality. I was just trying to make the point to the OP that museums are much better protected than he assumed, and that he and his putative group of thugs couldn’t just stroll in and intimidate the “unarmed older men and women or young girls plus a few really skinny artsy types” he spoke of so disparagingly. And even in your scenario, the trick for your six guys would to be get \ ***into** \*the museum with their automatic weapons in the first place. Though it certainly isn’t impossible, it would probably be more difficult than you anticipate. And considering what others have said here about the value of stolen art in the marketplace, more trouble than it is worth. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/22 "2009-01-02T17:48:26Z")
> [@Monstera\_deliciosa](#): > > I didn’t mean to imply that museums are armed fortresses invulnerable to every eventuality. I was just trying to make the point to the OP that museums are much better protected than he assumed, and that he and his putative group of thugs couldn’t just stroll in and intimidate the “unarmed older men and women or young girls plus a few really skinny artsy types” he spoke of so disparagingly. I wasn’t judging their moral worth, merely estimating how formidable they would be as physical opponents to a mass theft. ---
**Author:** ![mmmiiikkkeee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/23 "2009-01-02T18:07:08Z")
Most unarmed “casual” security types aren’t trained to physically stop anyone who’s posing a serious threat; they simply call the cops. In fact they’d probably be on their way to the museum before the 10 burly tough guys wearing masks and caryying guns even got past the cashier at the front booth when they try to get in without paying. Having 25 cops waiting for you at the exits after being called 5 times as soon as you first showed up really throws a monkley wrench into most plans. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/24 "2009-01-02T18:44:10Z")
A fascinating, well-illustrated but often depressing book about high-value art theft, and how seldom it is either prevented or redressed: [http://www.amazon.com/Museum-Missing-History-Art-Theft/dp/1402728298/ref=pd\_cp\_b\_0?pf\_rd\_p=413864201&pf\_rd\_s=center-41&pf\_rd\_t=201&pf\_rd\_i=1897330448&pf\_rd\_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf\_rd\_r=1F0J0EC8NDKDBDBS15M2](http://www.amazon.com/Museum-Missing-History-Art-Theft/dp/1402728298/ref=pd_cp_b_0?pf_rd_p=413864201&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1897330448&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1F0J0EC8NDKDBDBS15M2) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/25 "2009-01-02T19:26:15Z")
Yeah, I’d suggest substituting 10 burly masked men toting AK-47s with perhaps baseball caps, fake mustache and 9mm pistols concealed in lightweight jackets. Something along those lines could probably get to the art, and perhaps force hold open a line of exits heading to the door without getting the people called immediately. As an aside, I’d HATE to see the reaction of your insurance company to the idea of doors that lock closed with museum patrons inside. Serious fire hazard, that. This being said, if your goal was just overpowering museum security and kidnapping most of the museum security staff… might be easier to do… ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/26 "2009-01-02T21:04:22Z")
Also remember most (but not all) art will be somewhat old. You just can’t bust in and grab a whole bunch of pictures. One scratch on a painting can turn it from a one million dollar painting to half it’s value or less. The big money in art is not theft but forgery. I’ve read a couple of books about it and it’s incredible because some techniques are highly sophisticated. That coupled with the fact a lot of art is relatively new. In otherwords if you try to forge a Da Vinci it’s hard to get the same materials he used. But if you’re forging a painter from the 60s it’d be a lot easier. What’s really interesting some of the forgery artists actually have been able to turn legit and their own paintings have value. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/27 "2009-01-02T22:05:40Z")
What if someone just wanted to damage the art? From the museums I visited that looks pretty easy. Who’s going to supposed to stop me from throwing a match at one of those paintings and then running away? ---
**Author:** ![qubed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f07891/32.png) [@qubed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qubed)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/28 "2009-01-02T22:14:06Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > What if someone just wanted to damage the art? From the museums I visited that looks pretty easy. > > Who’s going to supposed to stop me from throwing a match at one of those paintings and then running away? Probably the same reason that prevents you from taking a baseball bat to a Ferrari – jail time. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/29 "2009-01-02T22:20:04Z")
Reminds me of an ancient SNL Weekend Update gag about a gang of art vandals who had broken into the Louvre and glued arms on the Venus de Milo. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/30 "2009-01-02T22:22:05Z")
[Operation Cheesesteak](http://picasaweb.google.com/seamaster100/OperationCheeseteak?authkey=8cdi2ypjj_Q&feat=email#) ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/31 "2009-01-03T06:01:11Z")
> [@qubed](#): > > Probably the same reason that prevents you from taking a baseball bat to a Ferrari – jail time. I asked “who’s going to stop me” not “what”. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/32 "2009-01-03T06:13:12Z")
> [@astro](#): > > One thing that stuck me was that all the guards seemed to be mainly unarmed older men and women or young girls plus a few really skinny artsy types. If I assembled a team of 10 burly men and decided to gather up some arm fulls of selected fine art who’s to stop me and this Viking horde before we get to the entrance and make our getaway down the steps? This was Sunday and I didn’t see single armed guard anywhere. The place sounds better-guarded than any liquor or grocery store I’m aware of, a far likelier target of my imaginary Viking horde. What stops me? The Social Contract and damned little else. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/33 "2009-01-03T06:24:21Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > I asked “who’s going to stop me” not “what”. Honestly, if you’re a serious threat, the answer is “The Philadelphia Police Department”. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/34 "2009-01-03T06:26:00Z")
As an aside, we know that their security staff has suck wages and benefits: [http://www.unionvoice.org/campaign/PMALaborDay](http://www.unionvoice.org/campaign/PMALaborDay) ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/35 "2009-01-03T17:46:27Z")
> [@Monstera\_deliciosa](#): > > As a former museum security guard (and harmless-looking woman) I used to tell visitors who asked this question that there is more to museum security than meets the eye. Back then, I was not permitted to elaborate. But in addition, to what **Q.E.D.** has correctly posted, any major museum is likely to have more firearms on the premises than you would have noticed upon casual observation, undercover security guards keeping an eye on persons exhibiting suspicious behavior, and electronics that will lock exit doors at a moment’s notice. Presumably they wouldn’t lock the exits if there were a fire in the building; that would be dooming potentially hundreds of visitors to a fiery death. So if you’re intent on stealing artwork, why not pull the fire alarm to make your getaway? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/36 "2009-01-03T17:48:17Z")
Gotta’ love the way the SDMB collective brain grinds out answers to problems… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/37 "2009-01-03T18:13:23Z")
I’m not an expert in museum security. But if I were placed in charge of such, I’d probably put hidden detectors in doorways and miniature tags on the artworks that could be easily carried away so it would set off alarms if somebody tried to walk away with something. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/38 "2009-01-03T18:38:21Z")
Well, Little Nemo, you just became the first person suggesting that we create an RFID tag for the Mona Lisa… On edit: Wait, does that mean you could like… ring it up on the counter at Wal-Mart? I need to see how the whole RFID thing works… ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/39 "2009-01-03T21:21:42Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > What if someone just wanted to damage the art? From the museums I visited that looks pretty easy. > > Who’s going to supposed to stop me from throwing a match at one of those paintings and then running away? Actually this happened to the Mona Lisa From The Wikipedia > [@](#): > > In 1956, the lower part of the painting was severely damaged when a vandal doused the painting with acid. On December 30 of that same year, Ugo Ungaza Villegas, a young Bolivian, damaged the painting by throwing a rock at it. This resulted in the loss of a speck of pigment near the left elbow, which was later painted over. I have often wondered the same thing while visiting museums. I guess until enough people start vandalizing painting it won’t be a problem. Kind of like hijacking a plane. No one thought much about it until people started doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516/40 "2009-01-03T22:16:55Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > The place sounds better-guarded than any liquor or grocery store I’m aware of, a far likelier target of my imaginary Viking horde. Liquor is replaceable. Paintings from the 1700’s aren’t. > [@Mr.Slant](#): > > Honestly, if you’re a serious threat, the answer is “The Philadelphia Police Department”. You don’t think it would be too easy for someone to vandalize museum art work? Markxxx is probably right that it’s not protected because it isn’t a big problem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-pillaging-the-philadelphia-museum-of-art/479516.md?page=3)