# What's to stop me from starting a country in Antartica? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602 "2011-02-16T17:43:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/21 "2011-02-18T09:30:57Z")
> [@fifty-six](#): > > What military force would strike? US, NATO? Wouldent even the smallest scale attack cause an environmental outrage. Depending on whose turf you were usurping, Australia, NZ, the US, or the UK would almost certainly send some people in camouflage with guns to Have A Word With You. The only “Environmental damage” from a small-scale attack is going to be from spent brass and maybe a few damaged buildings or vehicles- which can be cleared up pretty easily once the main event is over. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/22 "2011-02-18T13:15:34Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > which can be cleared up pretty easily once the main event is over. Plus it would be cheap for a military invasion – the Main Event only costs $10K a head. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/23 "2011-02-18T13:20:49Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > The first is that you have no basis for an economy. If so, you won’t be there long. You can’t live off ice. Homer Simpson would invent a scheme.. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/24 "2011-02-18T13:25:09Z")
They don’t have to attack - just blockade. Any of the candidate countries being pissed off (Argentina, Australia, US, etc) have the naval forces to simply prevent freighters from entering the harbour in Port Rickland. Since there’s no agriculture in Rickland, trade sanctions enforced by gunship are going to be highly effective. The only shots fired would be across the bows of merchant vessels. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/25 "2011-02-18T14:28:36Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > They don’t have to attack - just blockade. That’s it. Any country with a navy can shut you right down, for pretty cheap as military deployments go. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/26 "2011-02-18T15:12:35Z")
Y’all are missing the point here. In speaking of treaties and military response and such you’re not answering Rick’s basic question ‘What’s to stop me…’ The rule, in realpolitik terms, for establishing a country or staging a successful revolution and such is always the same. In fact it has been the same since before the time of the Greeks and such: “To do so you must declare your new country exists and make it stick.” Nothing more. You can do it in Antarctica or the Madives or London for that matter. Declare your intent, start operating as if you were an independent nation, and then beat back any challenges to that operation. Once you’ve done that successfully eventually you will either be formally recognized or simply semi-ignored as _de facto_ recognized (if not _de jure_). As a blueprint for Rickland? 1. Set up, quietly. VERY quietly. 2. Go to the foreign ministers of 5-10 half-assed third world nations. Give them money (billionaire, remember?) in exchange for formal recognition. 3. Establish mutual defense and trade treaties with them. 4. Go to the UN and announce your existence and your entering into trade and defense treaties with those who recognize you. Ask for admission into the UN. 5. See if whomever wishes to kick you out wants the diplomatic headache of going to war with a bunch of other no account states. 6. Prepare underwater lair and fast boat…just in case That’s how _I_ would do it. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/27 "2011-02-18T15:12:54Z")
You can overrun Michigan, if you like. We need something else to talk about other than the unemployment, weather and unemployment. You’d probably get a bunch of people knocking at your door for a job. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/28 "2011-02-19T00:47:15Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Depending on whose turf you were usurping, Australia, NZ, the US, or the UK would almost certainly send some people in camouflage with guns to Have A Word With You. The only “Environmental damage” from a small-scale attack is going to be from spent brass and maybe a few damaged buildings or vehicles- which can be cleared up pretty easily once the main event is over. If they were wearing camouflage, they’d be pretty easy to spot. I recommend white. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/29 "2011-02-19T01:11:48Z")
> [@TravisFromOR](#): > > If they were wearing camouflage, they’d be pretty easy to spot. I recommend white. 😃 There is Snow Camouflage, you know. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/30 "2011-02-19T01:42:09Z")
> [@Shirley\_Ujest](#): > > You can overrun Michigan, if you like. We need something else to talk about other than the unemployment, weather and unemployment. You’d probably get a bunch of people knocking at your door for a job. Suddenly I have visions of Dr. Evil after a long hibernation … Dr Evil: Unless I am paid one _million_ dollars … Number One: Billion, sir. Dr Evil: One _billion_ dollars, I will use my fiendish Discombobulizer to raze Detroit to the bare earth! Bwah-hah-hah!! Number One: Um, sir … POTUS: Wow, that would sure save us a lot of bulldozer driver man-hours. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/31 "2011-02-19T01:58:35Z")
Have you considered [Malpelo Island](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malpelo_Island)? It looks very defensible. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/32 "2011-02-19T02:21:45Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I know there are international treaties about the use of Antarctica, but would anyone try to enforce them and conquer Rickland, if I went about my business peacefully? The [Antarctic Treaty\*](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_Treaty_System) (signed by 47 countries, including most of the heavy hitters) includes this: > [@](#): > > Article 4 – The treaty does not recognize, dispute, nor establish territorial sovereignty claims; no new claims shall be asserted while the treaty is in force; > Article 10 – All treaty states will discourage activities by any country in Antarctica that are contrary to the treaty; > Article 11 – All disputes to be settled peacefully by the parties concerned or, ultimately, by the International Court of Justice; So by this, you’d be in violation of Article 4, you’d be “discouraged” by up to 47 countries (likely including your own), and if truculent you’d be hauled before the International Court of Justice (and no doubt slapped on the side of the head with a wet penguin). \*Interesting footnote: 50th anniversary coming up in 4 months. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/33 "2011-02-19T04:00:09Z")
> [@TravisFromOR](#): > > If they were wearing camouflage, they’d be pretty easy to spot. I recommend white. 😃 I think that white, in Antarctica, \*would \*be camouflage. Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/34 "2011-02-19T04:48:52Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It’s an interesting idea, but I’m pretty sure there are countless islands in the Aegean or the Pacific which would A) Be a lot nicer to run as a micro-nation and B) Still not be worth the time or effort on anyone important’s behalf to come and boot you out. AFAIK there aren’t any islands left in Mediterranean or Pacific that haven’t been claimed. You’d have to [build](http://www.impactlab.net/2008/07/18/self-assembling-city-from-the-sea-autopia-ampere/) [one](http://principalityofnewutopia.com/) [yourself](http://www.tdrinc.com/nexus.html). ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/35 "2011-02-19T04:58:21Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > AFAIK there aren’t any islands left in Mediterranean or Pacific that haven’t been claimed. You’d have to [build](http://www.impactlab.net/2008/07/18/self-assembling-city-from-the-sea-autopia-ampere/) [one](http://principalityofnewutopia.com/) [yourself](http://www.tdrinc.com/nexus.html). I’m well aware they’ve all been claimed, but the point I’m making is that a Billionaire could easily “buy” (either openly or by simply bribing officials in the country that owns the land to ignore what’s going on there), or simply acquire (figuring no-one’s going to notice) an island in somewhere like (purely as an example) Micronesia. Assuming you found somewhere uninhabited and away from shipping lanes etc, how long would it take before someone in that country’s Government noticed what you were doing? If you were careful, I suspect it could be years. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/36 "2011-02-19T14:10:49Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > how long would it take before someone in that country’s Government noticed what you were doing? If you were careful, I suspect it could be years. Where’s the fun in that? If I’ve gone to the trouble of starting a new country, I don’t want to have to be discrete about it. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/37 "2011-02-19T14:25:06Z")
pizza delivery costs would upset your trade balance even with a healthy economy based on ice cube export. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/38 "2013-02-21T12:04:39Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Have you considered [Malpelo Island](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malpelo_Island)? It looks very defensible. Interestingly, it looks like the OP’s been usurped by [The Dominion of Melchizedek](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_of_Melchizedek): > [@](#): > > During the 1990s DoM began to claim sovereignty over a number of Pacific islands, all of which were already the possessions of recognized states. DoM’s claims include Taongi Atoll (an uninhabited possession of the Marshall Islands); **Malpelo Island** (a possession of Colombia, inhabited by a military garrison); Karitane Shoal (a reef submerged under 9 metres of water); Solkope Island (part of Fiji); and Clipperton Island (a possession of France). **DoM also claims a large section of Antarctica.** None of these claims is recognized by any established government. ---
**Author:** ![DrumBum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@DrumBum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrumBum)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/39 "2013-02-21T12:57:04Z")
[Here](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/783/how-do-i-go-about-starting-my-own-country)is some sage advice from Cecil that might be a good starting point. It is 20+ years old so laws might have changed but if you manage to carve out the nation of RickJayland, I’ll be your first tourist. ( you _will_ have a bar, right ? ) ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602/40 "2013-02-21T13:05:04Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > What if his method of boosting the economy is investing in human capital to perform business services? You could have office space down there if nothing else. Call centers and stuff. Manufacture stuff with parts and machinery that you import from other continents. Then those workers will naturally have to buy groceries and cars and get haircuts and all that shit. > > There doesn’t have to be a basis for an economy if you have the cash to start your own. I don’t know how long Bill Gates’s money would go in this scenario, but I’m guessing pretty far. Build houses/apts and sell/rent them at prices low enough to bribe people from other countries down to yours. Let anybody immigrate who wants to, as long as they’re able-bodied and want to work. > > Or build a biodome down there and power it with solar energy and wind! 🙂 You need to read up on Antarctica. Everything, like food has to be taken down there. There is no fuel, so all energy has to be imported. Even Gates isn’t rich enough. Then there is the winter when no ships or planes can go there. Most people can’t wait to go home after a year there. The only place it might work is in the “banana belt”, and that’s already well populated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-to-stop-me-from-starting-a-country-in-antartica/571602.md?page=3)