# What's up with all these lottery threads? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 11, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861 "2016-01-11T23:34:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/21 "2016-01-12T03:27:26Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Don’t people realize that gambling is a voluntary tax on the mathematically challenged? What is with people that think is a tax and that everyone who plays doesn’t understand statistics? It isn’t a tax. Different people play for different reasons but I think most as a dream. I took statistics in college, I understand the odds. Ten bucks to watch a 90 min movie or 90 minutes of daydreaming about winning the lottery, each about the same entertainment value to me. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/22 "2016-01-12T03:30:25Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Don’t people realize that gambling is a voluntary tax on the mathematically challenged? I’m confused if the current payout after taxes is 616,280,000 in Colorado and the odds of winning is 1/292,200,000 then isn’t the expected value of a ticket $2.109 which is greater then the cost of the ticket so by buying a ticket you are making 5.45% on your investment. Of course that doesn’t account for the value of the smaller prizes. It seems anyone saying it’s a tax on the math challenged haven’t done the math and are repeating what someone told them. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/23 "2016-01-12T03:54:55Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > then it’s a kind of flat tax and as such an extraordinarily regressive tax :smack: I’m used to people calling taxes regressive when they’re actually flat, but rarely do they use both words in the same sentence! ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/24 "2016-01-12T04:07:17Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > But with a lottery ticket you aren’t actually buying anything at all, from any practical perspective. For those who rationalize it as entertainment, some of us can entertain ourselves with thoughts of being very rich, should we wish to do so, without having to pay someone to supply the plot outline. I never think about the possibility of being very rich because it won’t happen. If I buy a ticket, there is a chance, however tiny, of it happening. I would have to buy a ticket to have that enjoyment. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/25 "2016-01-12T04:39:35Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I’m far from a millionaire, but I will admit to never paying attention to gas prices at different filling stations :). I go to the 5 or 6 that are most convenient to me in my normal routine and figure they cost what they cost. Of course I live in an area where independents are rare and most corporate stations converge towards very similar prices, so it is just not worth the extra effort to sort through them to save a few bucks. > > I’m pretty much a convenience over value guy generally. Takes all sorts, y’know ;). To each his own, indeed, especially with regard to where you draw the line between economy and convenience. But there are several discount gas stations near me and I usually fill up there unless I’m going in a different direction and they’re out of my way, in which case I don’t. So I’m never inconvenienced. It’s probably more than $100 in savings over the year with absolutely zero effort, so why not? > [@rsat3acr](#): > > What is with people that think is a tax and that everyone who plays doesn’t understand statistics? It isn’t a tax. As I mentioned elsewhere, the first lottery in North America AFAIK was a municipal one in Montreal in 1968 that was used to help pay for Expo 67 and the new subway, and which was the start of the government-run lottery craze. The Montreal mayor at the time referred to this pioneering initiative as a “voluntary tax”. > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > :smack: I’m used to people calling taxes regressive when they’re actually flat, but rarely do they use both words in the same sentence! I have no idea what you’re on about. I explained why lottery expenditures amount to a regressive tax in that same post, because of the disproportionate impact on the poor, which is also why simple flat tax rates are regressive. This is hardly a controversial position … A week after America went crazy over the record Mega Millions jackpot, we want to reiterate the cruel truth about lotteries. They are (1) regressive taxes on poor people, in that a ticket costs relatively more for a poor person than a rich person, and (2) punitive taxes on the poor and uneducated people who are the most avid buyers. > **[18 Signs That The Lottery Is Preying On America's Poor](https://www.businessinsider.com/lottery-is-a-tax-on-the-poor-2012-4?op=1)** ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/26 "2016-01-12T07:02:57Z")
Wow, people actually _enjoy_ throwing away money? I am in the wrong business. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/27 "2016-01-12T07:32:17Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Wow, people actually _enjoy_ throwing away money? I am in the wrong business. Not like you can get _into_ the lottery business unless you are the government. Although you’ve apparently never heard of “casinos” either (albeit still a pretty high barrier-to-entry business). ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/28 "2016-01-12T08:13:50Z")
As I’ve read someone point out, which set of odds do you think is better for you: that you’ll win a billion dollars in the lottery, or that you’ll earn a billion dollars through your own personal work ethic and networking? Now that I think about it, I think that answers the OP, and why many people tend to only play when the jackpots get newsworthy large. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/29 "2016-01-12T09:01:54Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Don’t people realize that gambling is a voluntary tax on the mathematically challenged? I lost ten grand in the stock market last week, thank you for asking. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/30 "2016-01-12T13:44:42Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Wow, people actually _enjoy_ throwing away money? I am in the wrong business. Do you have any concept of how our economy works? ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/31 "2016-01-12T13:52:59Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Don’t people realize that gambling is a voluntary tax on the mathematically challenged? Please don’t call other people mathematically challenged when it’s clear that you either haven’t done the math yourself, or you don’t understand the concept of “expected value”. As **Oredigger77** points out, large jackpots like the current one have an expected value higher than the cost of a ticket. (Though that doesn’t matter quite so much to the individual, since $100 million and $1 billion are both life-changing-huge.) ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/32 "2016-01-12T14:11:55Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Wow, people actually _enjoy_ throwing away money? I am in the wrong business. From the OP to this point, it seems like you’re really interested in ranting about people who play the lottery. As such, this seems more appropriate in the Pit. Thread relocated from IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![DummyGladHands](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DummyGladHands](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DummyGladHands)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/33 "2016-01-12T14:16:34Z")
> [@](#): > > iljitsch > Guest > > Join Date: Jul 2014 > What’s up with all these lottery threads? > Don’t people realize that gambling is a voluntary tax on the mathematically challenged? I dunno, why not just start another one ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/34 "2016-01-12T14:31:39Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Wow, people actually _enjoy_ throwing away money? I am in the wrong business. Yes, yes, you’re very smart. Here’s a cookie - go away now. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/35 "2016-01-12T14:37:56Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Yes, yes, you’re very smart. Here’s a cookie - go away now. Don’t send him away. He will come back with - What’s up with smoking? What’s up with all these people eating fast food? What’s up with all this alcohol consumption? What’s up with hover-boards? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/36 "2016-01-12T14:40:52Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > That’s the thing. Every discussion of the lottery, here and in real life conversations, has someone making that crack about a “tax on people who can’t do math.” And yet, who among us is completely rational in his/her spending, saving and investments? Did you buy coffee from Starbucks instead of making it at home, or getting it from McDonald’s or Dunkin Donuts? When was the last time you checked if you could get a slightly better interest rate if you moved your money to a different bank? How wisely are you allocating your retirement accounts? > > I’ll bet that there are a thousand decisions you make each year that cost you more than the cost of a couple of Powerball tickets. To be fair: things like making coffee at home or moving retirement accounts take time and effort. You pay more because you’re no good at making coffee, or you’re too lazy to have a comprehensive understanding of the stock market. With the lottery… You pay more in order to have a one-in-a-billion shot of earning a lot of money. Huh. Like, I get that it’s a “we can dream, dammit” thing, but that doesn’t stop it from being really stupid if done regularly. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/37 "2016-01-12T15:01:38Z")
Yes, but some of those other decisions (like where and how to invest your life savings) can be a lot more costly than an occasional lottery ticket. My point is that people are so smug about this one thing and so careless or irrational in making a thousand other decisions. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/38 "2016-01-12T15:22:48Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I’m confused if the current payout after taxes is 616,280,000 in Colorado and the odds of winning is 1/292,200,000 then isn’t the expected value of a ticket $2.109 which is greater then the cost of the ticket so by buying a ticket you are making 5.45% on your investment. Of course that doesn’t account for the value of the smaller prizes. …and it doesn’t count on a second (or third or fourth) winner. Any split throws those odds back into the house’s favor, and the odds of having to split the prize are pretty high (my back of the envelope says 75%, anyone else got a real number?). ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/39 "2016-01-12T15:25:48Z")
It’s foolish to play the lottery. But it’s also foolish to _not_ play the lottery. [sub]further zen aphorisms will be provided as appropriate[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861/40 "2016-01-12T15:25:50Z")
Gambling isn’t just about odds, it’s about risk vs. reward. The lottery presents negligible risk and massive reward, hence it’s not a bad decision mathematically to buy one lottery ticket (as others have said, if you are buying dozens of tickets a week then the risk becomes notable and the decision-making more questionable). But for the most part people uttering this trope about “a tax on the stupid” are demonstrating ignorance of very basic principles. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-all-these-lottery-threads/742861.md?page=3)