And what do the toys in Spencer Gifts have to do with the inverse square law?
Coherently, this time? :rolleyes:
Seriously, anybody who could make money with line-based power could make money with broadcast power, if it worked, which it don’t.
Indeed. And there is a large hairy deduction jumping up and down and waving its arms trying desperately to gain your attention here.
OK, you see this is where you differ from Tesla and enter the area of reason and science. As I understand it Tesla was trying to produce omnidirectional power while you are talking about focused power. Tesla was trying to power things all over the planet while your idea mirrors that of NASA’s MASER work.
Broadcast power seems to ignore the inverse square law, rather relying on global resonance.
If the global resonator idea could be done (which is well beyond the static transmitter prototypes I’ve constructed in the lab), I guess I have to agree with most here (though I’d love to go out and build a prototype right this second). One would have to constantly pump in energy and get diminishing results. Even if one were successful, weather is painfully unpredictable. I expect that like with everything else, there would be a slow bleed on the energy stored at any moment in the system and random “spills” where, like a camera flash, you accidentally lose/dump alot of energy in quick instants. The “big one” does seem (to me) to be hopelessly inefficient (without actually testing a prototype).
However, because something is not economically sound, does not mean that it cannot be done - I do that every day 
This thread makes very interesting reading with some very knowledgeable input. (mostly)
“The fact that a beam of microwaves can power a flying toy is of no help to you. It is also possible to transmit power by using a machine gun to spin a remote paddlewheel, but only a lunatic would propose using it as a practical replacement for the grid.”
What is the similarity between a machine gun and a microwave transmitter?
http://www.mtt.org/awards/WCB's%20distinguished%20career.htm
Lets recap! Wireless Power Transmission is a proven fact. (see the above link) Bill Brown has 50 patents in wireless power transmission and microwave tube technology. (note: Here’s someone other than Tesla, that should calm some of the urban legends doing the rounds here)
“He designed and fabricated an expanded waveguide test fixture for measuring the record reception-conversion efficiency of a single rectenna (92.5% at 6W RF input)”
I’d like to see a machine gun firing at a paddle wheel reach 92.5% efficiency.
“Demonstrate a system that can be used in the megawatt range without substantial danger. Note that it has to produce 60Hz three-phase AC. You can introduce a motor-generator or other device at the receiving end to convert from some other form, but the output frequency must be stable, and the inefficiencies entailed count against you.”
If you want a system that runs at 60Hz and 3 phase AC in the megawatt range, go right ahead. There’s nothing to say Broadcast power can’t or shouldn’t be DC as in the above Bill Brown demonstration or that it must be at 60Hz or that it has to be in megawatt range (although Bill Brown did demo 425Kw, he was 1/2 way there). Bear in mind that when the AC system was invented they called anything above 1Mhz 'High Frequency" These days a 'high frequency is above 1Ghz i.e. Microwave. Today we would be free to test any chosen radio frequency depending on spectrum use and desired propagation features and antenna size practicality.
Also using 60Hz to ‘broadcast’ or just transmit and receive point to point would make erecting a high gain antenna impractical. We have available these days (as I stated earlier and no-one has even tried to dispute) much higher antenna gain than in Tesla’s day but you can’t construct a multi wave length phased array at 60Hz. In fact you can’t even build a 1/2 dipole at these frequencies. The Navy built an antenna for ELF @ 76Hz with a wavelength of 2,452 miles. They had to build 2 x 14 mile long wires and place them over 130 miles apart connected by a below ground rock formation and it wasn’t very ‘efficient’. (still, probably more efficient than a machine gun shooting at a paddlewheel!) So, ANY frequency higher than 60Hz would be more practical. About the lowest frequency for multi-wavelength phased arrays (as used in the Wireless Power Demo) is VHF, above 30Mhz or so.
So, reproducing a 1/2 megawatt DC system (that can be inverted into 3 phase AC if you really insist) working at VHF or above with co-phased array retennas on the receiving end and ,from memory I think, plain waveguide where used at the transmit end doesn’t sound beyond the realms of practical engineering. It’s just a reproduction of the work done by Bill Brown (whom I’ve mentioned previously only to have dismissed as a 'flying toy’) at a lower frequency.
And lest anyone questions if high gain, highly directional antenna can be used for broadcast, have a look at the top of the next VHF or UHF TV station transmission tower, you’ll see a very large number of co-phased arrays around the mast at the top.
Hint: What did Einstein win a Nobel Prize for?
In other words, he made a toy.
Apart from the slight problem of actually being of use.
Now you’re talking nonsense again. “Your father says I can’t marry you until I have a steady income of a million dollars a month. Over the last six years I’ve accumulated over four hundred dollars in my savings account, so I’m already half-way there.”
No. “High Frequency” means between 3MHz and 30MHz. 1GHz is in the middle of the Ultra-High Frequence range.
I never required that 60Hz be used.
Go ahead and tell me why this wouldn’t / doesn’t work?
A 425KW toy.
425Kw is 0.425 Megawatts! WHY wouldn’t that scale to a megawatt plus??? Any practical explanation? I’ve already proved .4 MW was done 40 years ago, and multi megawatt RF transmitters have existed for decades longer. what FACT are you basing your negative opinion on?
I SAID
it can be inverted to 3 phase AC from DC at the receiver at any AC frequency you want as anyone with a basis knowledge of electroncs would know. You can then drive any stupid appliance you desire with it, even variable speed 3 phase AC motors.
Correcting me on “HF” is pretty lame when you obviously know I realize that! The point (which you conveniently over looked) was that Small high gain multi ERP antenna where not around at the turn of the century, but are now! What’s your objection to that? Comment on that?
I think perhaps all this is beyond you… Prove me wrong point for point!
I have already proved my case based on documented facts, substantiate your 'opinion !!
No, a 6W toy. The figure of 425kW is mentioned in connection with an entirely different invention, having nothing to do with “broadcast power” in any way. (I wish I’d known that before my last posting.)
I made the same stipulation before you did – but inverters cost money and reduce efficiency.
I do not “obviously know” any such thing. You made a categorical statement that was flat-out wrong.
My objection is that I do not wish my neighborhood and every other neighborhood to be converted into the inside of a microwave oven, which is exactly what you are so blithely promoting.
Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha! So says the man who said that volts, coulombs, and watts are “the same thing”.
As expected a total ignorant with NO substance. Not a single factual response to any of my FACTS! You are a pedant PAL!!!
Seriously mate, have you nothing better to do 1st thing in the morning?
Do you have ANY idea what inverters cost or how much they reduce efficiency? OBVIOUSLY NOT! They cost less than $10 to manufacture and don’t reduce “efficiency” at all (that are a SWITCH!!! Nothing more). You are quite literally talking out your arse!
VHF is not a microwave idiot! It starts at 10 meters and goes to 1 meter hardly MICRO. I’ll actually be civil and give you the benefit of the doubt that you know microwaves OVENS only work at the frequency of WATER @ 2.45 GHz. (You haven’t actually proved you know anything aside from how to say “nonsense”)
You are so predictable!!!, I knew you’d fall back onto that safety bulls***. Why don’t you move into a house below a 60,000 v power transmission line and tell me how safe from EMF you feel there?
Megawatts are transmitted down UNSHELDED 100km + long power lines across the globe at a ground hugging frequency of 60Hz,(of course you’d have no concept of what PROPOGATION is would you?), what makes you think a huge long wire antenna like that isn’t radiating EMF for miles around at a frequency that KILLS people?? (You don’t think at all, you just say ‘nonsense’)
Did you know you can touch a high voltage Tesla coil and get electricuted? Why is that? Because the human body does not react to high frequency voltage (but it sure does to low frequency, ask any sparky). So in fact a 60Hz power line is MUCH more dangerous that a high frequency transmission of RF power via radio.
Ever heard what DSL on power lines does when it’s sent down UNSHELDED utility power lines at HF frequencies? (probably not, you’re ignorant) It Radiates for MILES.
Honestly John W. Kennedy , you have nothing to add, why do you continue to make such a fool of yourself in public?
NOT get electricuted I ment 2 say!
Please note - I am not John W. Kennedy. But inverters do reduce efficiency. A DC to AC inverter might be 90% efficient.
The “frequency of water”? You’re showing your ignorance of physics here. A water molecule doesn’t have a resonant frequency, at least not anything in the microwave region.
I’m not sure what your point is about the house beneath a high-voltage power line - do you consider that safe or not? I would consider it safe. But again, you are confusing potential and power. High-voltage transmission lines have a large potential in the surrounding air, but there is minimal power coming out of them. This is quite different from the idea of broadcast power, where the power is dumped into space, for you to put up a “bucket” and catch it.
I’ll stand two meters from a 60 Hz power line transmitting megawatts, and you can stand two meters from an RF antenna transmitting megawatts. We’ll see who lives longer.
Personal insults are not allowed in this forum. I’ll report this to a moderator. But what was your point about the DSL on power lines? Sure, it radiates. So what?
Optimist, direct personal insults are not permitted outside the BBQ Pit. If you hope to retain your posting privileges, you will not repeat that mistake. Consider yourself warned.
This thread seems to be going nowhere, so I’ll close it.
bibliophage
moderator GQ