# What's up with morning DJ's using peoples deaths as laugh material every morning? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 27, 2002, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774 "2002-08-27T13:54:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774/41 "2002-08-28T21:03:54Z")
I’d rather see my kids eating mac and cheese every night and gettign their clothes form Goodwill than to teach them that morals are less important than money. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt.J](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sgt.J](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sgt.J)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774/42 "2002-08-28T21:24:19Z")
**andros** , puh-lease spare me. Who do you work for? You know damm well SOMETHING they do is fucked up and immoral. This isn’t the good ship lolly-pop. As much as I love America, WE as a counrty _have done_ and _still do_ some unbelieveably immoral things. When are you planning on moving? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774/43 "2002-08-28T23:56:50Z")
Actually, nothing my employer does is fucked up or immoral. Thanks for trying, though. And of course, it’s silly to suggest that I have to simply accept wrong behavior. As an employee, I may refuse to do work that I find wrong. If necessary, I may quit and find honest work–and in so doing teach my friends and family what I think is the right way to live. As a citizen of a country I may strive to ensure that my elected representatives are honest, and that nothing immoral s done in my name. I have the luxury of trying to change things from within, a luxury I don’t always have in the workplace. In other words, nice cop-out, nicer justification for continuing to do things you _know_ are wrong, really shitty comparison. Try again? ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774/44 "2002-08-29T00:06:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sgt. J \* > \*\*You’re crazy if you think there’s some vast untapped audience and ABC, NBC, INFINITY, CLEAR CHANNEL, CITADEL, etc… \*\* Don’t take my word for it. Look up the numbers yourself. Here’s a [PDF file](http://www.davidgleason.com/persons%20using%20radio.pdf) which examines AQH numbers for the entire U.S. in all dayparts except overnight, which shows the declining number of persons 18+ using radio from Fall 1998 to Summer 2001. And it’s still declining. There are simply too many substitutes for radio now for people to put up with shitty programming, a lack of local air personalities, short playlists, and crappy formatting. You want to know what scares the shit out of radio programmers? Look at those dropping numbers for Men 18+, Men 18-34, Men 25-54, and Women 18+. There **is** some vast untapped audience out there – it’s the demo “People Who Have Stopped Listening To The Radio.” > [@](#): > > \*\*If you think they could make more money another way and just like “bad taste” crappy radio better you’re a moron. \*\* I’ll let my BA in Radio/TV Arts speak for whether I’m a moron or not, but it should be obvious to even the dumbest programmer that, book to book, it’s better to get a 6 share of a shrinking audience than it is to get a 4 share of a growing audience. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774/45 "2002-08-29T02:21:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sgt. J \* > With the deregulation of radio in '96 anyone still on the air is lucky to even have a job. It’s the right of every employee to seek another job, but it’s the responsibility of most people (like me) to worry more about feeding my kids that working for a moral company. 1996 was six frickin’ years ago. I’ve not only changed jobs since then, I’ve changed _careers_. That excuse is good for a couple of years, but not forever. > [@](#): > > Again, I’m more worried about feeding my family than deciding to quit a job because “even though people want to hear this I shouldn’t say it.” This is (arguably) bad taste, not snuff porn. My point is that **you** find it objectionable, yet don’t seem to be in any hurry to find a cleaner way to make a buck. I’m not trying to tell you anything about your business; I’m just working with what you give me. > [@](#): > > Why should [the owners give up a few bucks to produce less objectionable programming]? The **business** is a business. The **owners** are - presumably - human beings, not automatons. > [@](#): > > This is a business, not a social engineering program to tell people what is proper entertainment. The owners are free to **tell themselves** what is proper entertainment. That **isn’t** social engineering; that’s **free choice**. And to the extent that I think about them, I will judge them by their choices, as I would with any other human being, great or small. I can’t buy the notion that the great are somehow bound by shackles, morally speaking, but the small are free agents. But I guess I’ve said that already. > [@](#): > > Making money giving people what they want is a bad thing? You’re problem is with capitolism, not radio. There are aspects of capitalism that trouble me, but they’ve stayed outside of this debate. Nope, I’d just say we’re all in a position to judge each other by the choices we make. And if someone chooses to make a few extra bucks that they don’t terribly need by means that I consider sleazy, that’s not a reflection on the free-market system, but on the person. It’s especially a reflection on that person if they blame their behavior on that system. > [@](#): > > Because that’s the way a free market economy works. Nothing bad happens to **the public** if they don’t pander to McDonnald’s or a DJ, but if the DJ and McDonnald’s don’t pander to the public, they go out of business. JFTR, there’s a difference between ‘providing a needed or desired good or service’ and ‘pandering’. McDonalds’ and the radio station - especially the radio station, with its FCC license - can stay in business without ‘pandering’. The radio station has very limited competition, and can make a lot of mistakes without going under. And if worst comes to worst, it can always sell its license to another company, and come out in good shape. > [@](#): > > Consumers have all the power. Yeah, suuuuuuure. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774/46 "2002-08-29T04:19:14Z")
Wooh this turned into a real thread. With a Free Market True Believer™ 🙂 Let me try to illustrate how the free market is not _necessarily_ going to give the most popular radio show.(with small numbers so I can do in my head) Lets say we have a market of 20 people. Lets say advertisers pay $1/listener. Lets say it costs $2 to pipe a national generic morning zoo Lets say it costs $8 to run a local current affairs show Now suppose 10 will listen to the wacky zoo crew type stuff(through preference or not caring/just need weather&traffic) Now suppose 15 will listen to local current affairs stuff (through preference or not caring/just need weather&traffic) All owners, pushed by the mysterious invisible hand, see that they are forced to go with the zoo feed because that way they make $8($1X10-$2) instead of $7($1X15-$8). The hapless owners’ only decision to make is which generic zoo to buy. ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774/47 "2002-08-29T13:17:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by anya marie: > A bigger problem is that someone is hiring talentless hacks, taking them seriously,ever producing more crap. > [@](#): > > Sgt.J speaks: > No, _Anya_ the problem is that this kind of crap is what the majority of people want to hear, that’s why it’s successful. If nobody listened to the crap station would air whatever the public did listen to. It’s not “them”, it’s “us”. Huh, maybe then you can tell me why this is my favorite radio station [The Drive](http://www.971thedrive.com)Maybe you can figure out the relative success of trendy alternative station[One](http://www.947thezone.com) and [Two](http://www.q101.com)! Ever since One switched from being the 80’s channel, why, they have gotten away with ripping of as much of Two’s schtick as possible. One does not carry Mancow, whilst Two does, which is why i do not listen to Two much anymore. > [@](#): > > _more by Sgt.J_ > Here’s the big picture: DJ’s and Radio Station do not decide what stays on the radio. They decide what gets “given a try”. ALL OF YOU decide what stays. Bwahahahahahahaha!!! Oh, yeah this has been enormously successful. This is why there is so much choice, this is why i get to listen to online radio to get my fix of industrial and quite often the 80’S channel. :eek: 😃 :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Sgt.J](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sgt.J](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sgt.J)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774/48 "2002-08-29T17:12:47Z")
> [@](#): > > posted by **andros** …I may quit and find honest work… So now radio isn’t honest work? Just because YOU don’t like dick jokes and making fun of people? Even taking into account **CarnalK** ’s info (which, by the way, I concede to be dead right) Howard Stren / Mancow / Opie and Anthony / Bob and Tom etc… have Millions of liteners around the country who love that type of thing. Under your new **Ministry of Morality and Standards** , what SHOULD they like?. > [@](#): > > Actually, nothing my employer does is fucked up or immoral. Thanks for trying, though. I guess we will have to take your word then, won’t we? And if they did, you’d quit? Good for you if you would, but I’m more interested in supporting my family than protecting the people of America from the horrors of :gasp!: **immature humor and bad taste** (that they listen to or not as they desire). My god next thing you know South Park will be the number one show on Comed… oh, wait… > [@](#): > > **pldennison** > There is some vast untapped audience out there – it’s the demo “People Who Have Stopped Listening To The Radio.” The National average M-S 6-Mid AQH drops 110 people over 12 books, _That_ is your VAST untapped audience? In this age of Digital Cable, Broadband, MP3 players, XM, P2P (free music) sites, PC’s with CD burners… losing 110 to all this other media while keeping 1,520 is your big cite? Hell, I’m shocked the number is that low! Radio is doing better than I would have thought. > [@](#): > > it should be obvious to even the dumbest programmer that, book to book, it’s better to get a 6 share of a shrinking audience than it is to get a 4 share of a growing audience. I’m sure Clear Channel communications is crying all over thier billions of dollars over this as we speak. If you hurry you can propably save them. > [@](#): > > This is why there is so much choice, this is why i get to listen to online radio to get my fix of industrial and quite often the 80’S channel. You know why Industrial is on-line? Because the ammount of the population who wants to hear it at noon on a tuesday is incredibly small. Commercial radio is MASS media. The internet stations have exponentially lower overhead. They can program to smaller audiences, and can be accessed all over the globe to boot. This is basic stuff here **anya**. and as for > [@](#): > > maybe then you can tell me why this is my favorite radio station The Drive Maybe you can figure out the relative success of trendy alternative station One and Two! Ever since One switched from being the 80’s channel, why, they have gotten away with ripping of as much of Two’s schtick as possible. One does not carry Mancow, whilst Two does, which is why i do not listen to Two much anymore. Maybe I can tell you why a particular station is YOUR favorite? This is obviously going way over your head. And the Alternative station with Mancow (Q101) has a 2.9 in the latest trend The Zone the one with "has a 1.7. And your favorite station, The Drive which has " no silly morning show " acording to the web page, is also getting beat by Q101 with a 2.7. For agruing against me, you have done a nice job of making my point. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774/49 "2002-08-29T17:13:39Z")
(aside . . .) **Anya Marie** , what do you listen to online? I could use a reliable industrial station . . . ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774/50 "2002-08-29T17:28:18Z")
Of for fuck’s sake. **Sarge** , I think we’re having a little communications problem here. Firstly: > [@](#): > > So now radio isn’t honest work? No, I said nothing of the sort, and I have no idea where you got that idea. If you’ll reread my post in context, I was discussing specifically work that I found morally objectionable. If I believed that my work in radio involved immoral or dishonest activities, then I’d go and find another job that _I_ considered honest. If you don’t find it dishonest or immoral, then there’s no reason to quit, of course. But that wasn’t my point. My point is simply that my morals are more important to me than a job–and that I think it’s a shame that yours are not. Secondly: > [@](#): > > I guess we will have to take your word then, won’t we? Yup, I guess you will. But seeing as how I’m self-employed, I think I know my employer pretty well. Thirdly: > [@](#): > > I’m more interested in supporting my family than protecting the people of America from the horrors of :gasp!: **immature humor** and bad taste(that they listen to or not as they desire). Back to this again. One more time, I’m not talking about immature humor or bad taste. You specifically brought up morality, and that’s all I’m addressing. So yes–if my employer acted in a way that I found to me morally reprehensible, I would have to find some way to address it. And if I cannot change it, I would certainly quit. Again, I’d rather my children wear K-Mart clothes and eat casseroles their entire lives and grow up knowing their father has the courage to stand up for what he believes. Now then, if you really _didn’t_ mean to suggest that your morals are less important to you than your paycheck, none of this applies to you, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Sgt.J](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sgt.J](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sgt.J)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774/51 "2002-08-29T18:22:18Z")
Dam!~ I _knew_ you were going to be self-employed when I wrote that. Oh well, odds were in my favor; I had to go with it. MY morals are not less important than my paycheck. That being said, if I were to tie in my own personal morals with the conduct of the company I work for I’d never have a job again (you’re not hireling Broadcasting Managers, are you?). Pick a “Big Corporation” at random and I’ll bet you someone on a university campus is bitching about something they do. If personal morals are inseparable from the corporate behavior of your employer, there’s going to be a lot of welfare kids running around in America. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774/52 "2002-08-29T18:34:20Z")
Sarge, remind me to introduce you to the concept of a “trend” sometime. The point isn’t a raw number of listeners – it’s a consistent trend of declining listenership numbers over the last decade. Each quarter, a few more people give up radio in favor of something else. And as local radio continues to disappear, the audience is going to get smaller. Why do you think companies like Clear Channel and Radio One fought so hard for dereg? Why do you think they’re buying up so many stations, and branching out into concert promotion, ticket sales, billboards, etc.? Because it’s hard to make money as an individual station owner anymore. The only way to make money is to leverage your costs across multiple stations in a single market. That’s why they fought so hard for punitively high royalty rates for Internet broadcasters, too – to eliminate potential competitors. Now, do you have any actual arguments to present, or are you simply going to gainsay what everyone else says? ---
**Author:** ![Sgt.J](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sgt.J](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sgt.J)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774/53 "2002-08-29T20:03:12Z")
Sure, the same argument I’ve BEEN making. The answer to the OP’s question: what’s up with (immature/shock humor) on morning radio is not that the DJ’s are “talentless hacks” as was asserted earlier in the thread, but in actuality because there is a large audience for that sort of thing and the station is trying to reach that audience. Same as the reason “oldies” DJ’s don’t say controversial things and have lesbians on the air isn’t because they’re “tallentless hacks” it’s because they’re trying to reach a particular audience. Is that good enough for you **pldennison**? I know what a “trend” is. It’s your interpritation of that trend I find laughable. Radio isn’t loosing listeners because of a lack of tallent, it’s loosing listeners to new forms of media and entertainment that can narrowcast to better serve the needs of individual listeners. Even huge companies like CC can only have a few radio stations in any one market. XM has something like 150 channels to choose from. You think people are leaving because of no-tallented DJ’s and managers? Who the fuck do you think XM hires to program the music on thier stations, gynacologists? The Golf Channel would NEVER make it if it had to fight for a frequency and run a transmitter in EVERY markes it wanted to be in. On cable (like satelite), it has the ability to reach a LARGE audience that is a SMALL percentage of the population. Broadcaster’s can’t do that. That’s why radio listening is declining. Many listeners simply download thier favorite music to a cd for free. How are mass-media outlets supposed to compete with each individual picking all thier favorites at will? Your assertion that these listeners are leaving radio because the “playlists are too short and the dj’s suck” shows a complete misunderstanding of the way new technology impacts markets AT BEST. I suppose your local broadcast TV station would never have lost viewers to cable tv if they’d have gone after that "vast untapped audience out there – it’s the demo “People Who Have Stopped Watching Local TV” , hugh? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774/54 "2002-08-29T21:10:10Z")
> [@](#): > > If personal morals are inseparable from the corporate behavior of your employer, there’s going to be a lot of welfare kids running around in America. Well, I **hadn’t** been arguing the case against the free market here, and I’m still not. But if I was, that would cinch it. I can’t think of a clearer statement of the problem with free-market economics as practiced in a corporate setting than the notion that it’s normative for **corporations** to do things that **human beings** would generally regard as immoral. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774/55 "2002-08-29T21:24:19Z")
Amen, RTF. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774/56 "2002-08-29T21:26:51Z")
Now, back to the debate proper. **Sgt** , you were saying: > [@](#): > > So now radio isn’t honest work? Just because YOU don’t like dick jokes and making fun of people? and > [@](#): > > Providing any product or service that is unhealthy (even though “bad taste” has not been proven to be unhealtyh) is immoral. Ice Cream? Candy? Yummy greasy bacon cheeseburgers? Pardon me, but you were the one who entered this fray by saying: > [@](#): > > It’s like blambing McDonnalds for making crappy food. HELLO- everybody consumes it or there wouldn’t be a market for it. The real problem isn’t that DJ’s are “talentless hack’s”, it’s that your friends and neighbors are “inbread mouthbreathers” who flock in droves to LCD entertainment. It’s not as if the entire broadcasting industry got together and decided to put on this crap “in spite of the wishes of the public”. I would think that an industry that produces “crap” for “inbread [sic] mouthbreathers” isn’t exactly an industry to be proud of being a part of. Nobody’s telling you the broadcast radio industry is a disgusting place to be; you came in here and splattered that statement on the walls. But if pandering to “inbread mouthbreathers” is how you want to put bread on the table, far be it from me to suggest looking into alternative career paths. Ditto McDonalds’ burgers. If they’re making “crappy food”, then they shouldn’t be proud of it. (What’s so controversial about that?) I was considerably less critical of them than you were. Here, I’ve simply repeated you, and you’ve taken issue with me. Your argument is with yourself. And if you can’t agree with you, then it’s time to put your analyst on danger money. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt.J](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sgt.J](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sgt.J)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774/57 "2002-08-29T22:52:58Z")
I’m not saying it’s OK that typical corporations make decisions that are outside MY standards of moral behavior. I’m saying that if I were only willing to work for a company that followed my personal moral guidelines I’d NEVER have a fucking job. Neither would most people. Just because you sweep the floors at Microsoft doesn’t make you morally responsible for predatory business practices. Now, for the rest… I don’t have a problem with working for an industry that does crappy things. I don’t put out a product I’m ashamed of. Because some in the industry put out a product that I do not like in the coarse of going after a specific demographic does not concern me either. The Internet industry has porn. The music industry puts out music about killing and rapeing women. I guess Joni Michell should hang her head for working in that industry, right **RT**? Or would it be OK for her to hate Emminem’s lyrics while arguing that he’s not just a talentless hack? [aside] Oh, and for fuck-sake "[sic]”? Yes, I was typing fast and misspelled “inbred” … Calling attention to it is pretentious bullshit. [/aside] I’m not saying I’m a fan of that form of entertainment; on the contrary, I’ve been clear I don’t care for much of it. What I’m saying is just because you or I may thing it’s in poor taste does not mean the people who do it are nothing but “talentless hacks”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-morning-djs-using-peoples-deaths-as-laugh-material-every-morning/125774.md?page=2)