No, but a reasonable diet and excercise is, and it usually leads to being thin.
A little factual accuracy sprinkled in with our mud-slinging, yes?
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The book Black Like Me was written by a gentleman named John Howard Griffin.
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Mr. Griffin was a white man. He died on September 9th, 1980.
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He did not really really hate black people. As will be abundantly evident to anyone who reads the book, or at least reads the reviews and synopsis, Mr. Griffin was a fairly openminded gentleman.
Cartooniverse
I believe that Wesely was referring to the well-dressed, educated black man Mr. Griffen met on one of his bus rides who spoke with great scorn of the other blacks on the bus and nearly got into a fight with several of them.
Sure. When I get stressed out, I starve myself. You actually get a sort of “high” if you haven’t eaten anything for 3 or 4 days, and your stressors seem much less stressful.
Of course, starving yourself will kill you a lot faster than eating too much.
It seems like many people are very vehement about the idea that losing weight, or maintaining an “ideal” weight, should require suffering of some kind. Is it simply a case of “I’ve suffered to lose or maintain my weight, and everyone else should too, dammnit!”?
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned as a possible factor here (and forgive me if I missed it), is the additives and hormones now ubiquitous in our food supply.
Hormones in meats and poultry. Additives in processed foods. Isn’t it reasonable to assume this has an effect on our body chemistry?
Why is there such an increase in reported cases of insulin resistance, “pre-diabetes”, and full blown type 2 diabetes throughout the world?
Why the heck is corn sugar in so many processed foods? I keep seeing it on cans of soup, but why? When I make homemade soup I don’t put corn or any other sugar in it. It’s not a preservative necessary to the canning process, so why is it there? And why do “low sodium” canned foods cost more?
I’m sure everyone can point to at least one example of a lazy, poor, obese person, but that is not science. Science recognizes that there are many variables, and that is why most studies conclude the need for further studies. Who do you think is more likely to read and follow these studies - the rich or the poor?
And let us not discount the financial incentive for pushing one thing or another, be it the highly political USDA food pyramid, or the latest cash cow “miracle” weight-loss diet. Corn sugar is a by-product of the corn crop, that might otherwise go to waste - profit margins win out over good nutrition, and then again, who is funding all these studies, and are they really objective about the results?
Meanwhile, people who are raised eating these processed foods develop a taste for them, and homemade “doesn’t taste right” - in addition to being more work, and possibly more expensive than opening and heating up a can.
Is it unreasonable or “politically correct” to cut these people some slack? They need to be educated, and at the same time, their taste buds need to be re-trained. No easy task, and no financial incentive to do so.
Amen, amen, amen.
One of my nieces has been known to say, “I don’t like [insert name of fresh food]. It’s too fresh! I like chemicals!”
That’s what she’s gotten used to over the years. She may change eventually, but for now she just wants what she’s accustomed to having.
You just made clear what I had only hinted at in an earlier post: we do not need a bunch of crap added to our food. What good does it do us to have artificial colors and flavors, for just one example?
If people would look at the ingredients on the boxes and bags, they’d be astounded at the number of additives. It’s like reading the results of a bad lab experiment. Check out the ingredient list on Wonder “bread” some time. It doesn’t even qualify as bread, in my definition of the term.
Eh, not really. Despite my complaining about the all-you-can-eat spaghetti above, I really eat pretty darn well. Differently than most fat people I know, but still pretty well. I actually find that in most cases, it’s not so much WHAT I’m eating as HOW MUCH I’m eating (excluding things like 1600-calorie fast-food burgers). I don’t go out as much as I used to, but I really enjoy cooking so it’s a positive change. As far as the commuting on my bike thing, given gas prices, that’s a positive change as well. I don’t feel like I’ve suffered much if at all, really, and I’ve been actually been pretty astonished at how easily it was coming off. I didn’t push it, didn’t set any real goals (beyond eating fewer calories), didn’t make any special effort to exercise, etc.
It is possible to eat healthily, with fewer calories than you burn, and still enjoy it. I know I do.
Yep. I’m not saying fat people who lost weight are bad people or racist or anything stupid like that. I’m saying the ex fat are intolerant out of a fear of ending up fat again.
I’m only intolerant of those with the “It’s-not-my-fault-I-swear-and-I-can’t-fix-it” mindset (and only then when it clearly IS their fault and they HAVE THE ABILITY TO fix it). And that mindset refers to a lot of things, not just obesity.
I’m catching up here so I’m way behind, but I’ve got to ask…you kidding?
Outside of hippie co-op type places (“Outpost” for those familiar with Milwaukee, Rainbow Whole Foods Co-Op for those in Jackson, MS) I haven’t seen one of those things in 20 years.
-Joe
There are several largish chains that offer bulk foods. Whole Foods is very expensive, but Henry’s/Wild Oats tries to be competitive with major grocery stores. Our Henry’s is always full of older people shopping for price. This doesn’t have much bearing on poverty if you don’t have access to one of these stores, but they are not rare, by any means. And hippie co-op places are alive and well and getting organized.
My goodness. Wesley, I apologize. I have the book on the shelf, I’m gonna go and find the passage and re-read it. Man. I totally misunderstood you there. Sorry, man ! 
Oh, this is just ridiculous.
I’ve read the book a couple of times. Christophe was a guy that Griffin meets in the book and is as Wesley said: A light-skinned black guy who disdained other black people.
Looks like the mud splashed back on ya, friend.
And you had already apologize, so, yeah–now I get to apologize to you, Cartoon.
What a thread this has been…
Might as throw in some more general comments. I don’t side with the conspiracy theorists here. I don’t side with those touting self-discipline. Wesley’s comments have seemed the most sensible.
Who knows what to think about food anymore? I’ve done it all. I’ve gone vegetarian for long stretches. I’ve reduced my sodium. My calories. I’ve been thin. I’ve been, as now, moderately gutty. I’ve cared, I’ve not cared. Here are some conclusions:
- Eating all the right and “healthy” foods exclusively and taking chemical vitamins has never really made me feel great, whole, peaceful, pure, and godly, as the health freaks claim it will. I’ve eaten right and exercised, just as I’ve been told, and it didn’t have the claimed effect. And I’ve eaten a lot of crap and not exercised so much and it didn’t make me feel much worse.
That said, I’ve never descended into the total eat-garbage don’t-exercise level. My gut tells me (no pun intended) that eating a basically nutricious diet (that is, you are not getting scurvy, pellagra, rickets, and you are getting the basic vitamins, minerals, and fiber your body requries) and getting a moderate amount of exercise will do as much for your health as becoming a vegan and running 10 miles a day. In fact, the latter is probably bad for you.
- What has made me feel good is my own cooking. I cook stir fry with a lot of vegetables a moderate amount of meat, traditional Chinese seasonings, and I eat it with a lot of brown rice, wild rice, buckwheat grouts, or other whole grains. Man, when I eat my own cooking, I’m doing fine.
Why? Perhaps because food has a magical quality to it. Fresh vegetables have a good vibe in them that transcends their mere nutritional content. Or maybe I’m good at making just what my body craves. The upshot is this: Eat what floats your boat.
I like this one.
One thing that stands out to me here is that people who are into cooking are more likely to eat healthier - regardless of their financial standing.
Whether poor, wealthy, or just getting by, I think one of the most important things you can teach your children is how to cook, and how to appreciate good food.
By the way - I had meant to include my recommendations when I started reading this thread, but was sidetracked. If money is a factor:
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Check out the ethnic markets in your area. For example - you’ll likely get the best prices on beans, grains, and spices in Indian markets. And you’ll find things that aren’t featured in the supermarkets. Try them!
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Forget supermarket meats and seafood. Find and cultivate a butcher and fishmonger. Ask them for advice and specials.
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Check out the ethnic and smaller greengrocers or produce markets. Think seasonal, and plan your meals based on what is cheap and abundant for the season.
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Involve your children (if you’ve got them). My 9 year old son is in charge of sprouting beans and growing herbs, and my 7 year old daughter makes our daily flatbreads and helps with desserts and general cooking.
The Whole Foods Market chain of grocery stores is now celebrating its 25th anniversary. They’re in 31 states and 2 provinces.
Well, that’s good for them, but that doesn’t change the fact that in a state (MS) of 3+ Million people there’s…one.
Either way, it’s a moot point, because you sure as hell don’t go to a Whole Foods place like that if you’re impoverished.
-Joe
Hi. Sorry I’m late.
Before I begin, are there ANY poor and obese people here besides me?
I mean, I’m college educated, fairly popular and a high-evaluated former teacher. But now I’m burnt out on teaching, currently unemployed (three months!) and functionally poor. I’ve been obese the last 15 years. I also don’t sugarcoat the fact that I grew up middle class and poor – at times very poor – despite a fairly decent middle-class upbringing and the fact my Mama always put me in terrific schools (well, up until high school, but that’s another story.)
Anyone else who grew up in poverty, whether it was generational or transitory or situational? Anyone here who hoarded food?
Anyone here been on food stamps or food vouchers or public assistance food subsidies or had five pound blocks of government cheese in their refrigerators along with honey, sugar, peanut butter, bread, cereal, butter? Anyone traded money – say forty cents on the dollar – to buy a fifty dollar (tax free) food stamp coupon book from some alcoholic or drug addict on the street for $20.00? Anyone here transported food from the better grocery store across town on public transportation because there’s no good grocery stores within an eight mile radius of your apartment? Anyone here used a one dollar food stamp to buy a candy bar because you needed the change so you could ride the bus and ate it even though you weren’t hungry because you were taught, and can’t stand to see, good food go to waste? Anyone who had to mix their own milk from powdered stuff in boxes because they couldn’t afford the real thing? Anyone here eligible for free and reduced breakfasts and lunches all their lives? Anyone here been temporarily homeless or dispossessed several times in their lives before they were 18? Anyone here who fished and/or hunted for a substantial portion of their regular meals? Have you eaten rabbit, raccoon, oppossum, squirrel, deer, snake, trout, chicken or home-grown frog’s legs you killed or dressed yourself? Anyone here had a corner liquor store they regularly bought food from because you can’t get to the grocery store? Anyone here joined a church youth program simply because they offered a free meal in the middle of the day? Anyone here ever dumpster dived the back of a grocery store or bread store? Anyone been to a food bank? Anyone shopped for food at a dollar store? Anyone here shop frequently at discount bread stores? Anyone here been so hungry they went to a funeral of people you don’t even know that well because you knew they’d be serving food at the wake? Anyone here who committed the faux paux of inviting yourself to the cookout of a family across the street and later found out they laughed and because you ate five hotdogs in one sitting?
Anyone here with an annual income of $25,000 or less who regularly buys cans of Crisco shortening at least once a month? Anyone here regularly buys five pound bags of sugar more than twice a month? Anyone here buys butter by the pound more than once a month? Anyone here who buys salt more than two times a year? Anyone here who buys potatoes in 10 pound quantities on a weekly basis? Anyone here keeps more than two dozen eggs in their refrigerator at all time? Buys several packs of bacon each week? Buys soda by the twelve pack every time it goes on sale? Does fried meat figure prominently in your diet at breakfast and dinner? Do you keep your larder stocked with cookies, cakes, potato chips, powdered sugar drinks, Kool-Aid packets, Twinkies, Ding-Dongs, peanut-butter and jelly and little powdered doughnuts?
Crater_Man. Okay. You’re a bit fixated on losing weight, and I don’t dispute your 100% weight-loss formula at all, but your criticism of obese people as “lazy” and “undisciplined” MIGHT explain why they don’t lose weight once they’ve gained it but doesn’t, in light of my experiences and observations, adequately explain how the weight is gained in the first place. You make the wrong assumption that gaining weight is easy, and therefore lazy. It’s not! It often takes a lot of work and a lifetime of socio-economic cultural conditioning to attain the midset of the poor regarding food.
There’s a book by a Dr. Ruby K. Payne, a thrity year professional educator called A Framework For Understanding Poverty. She makes the observation that the social classes in America don’t understand each other. She touches on a lot of the ways these social classes regard things like possessions, people, personality, social emphasis, clothing and family structure. She also talks about food.
According to Payne, with the rich, a key question of food is: is it well-presented? Appearance is important. For gourmonds, this tends to lead to overeating.
With the middle class, a key question of food is: did you like it? Quality is important. The easy access to quality food and exotic fare tends to lead to over overeating.
With the poor, THE key question of food is: do you have enough? The other is: Do you want some more? Quantity is important, period. Irregardless of taste, presentation or quality, the fact that you have “enough” food, that you 'clean your plate" and the fact that you buy in bulk anyway and the admonition that you “don’t let this food go to waste” leads to overeating.
Beyond everything else that’s been discussed – diet, exercise, racial and ethnic differences in metabolic rate, easy access to good grocery store – I think this basic attitude toward food tends to better explain obesity in the poor more than anything. In America most food is cheap, certainly cheaper than hosuing, and most poor people (who aren’t addicts of some kind) will make sure they will somehow feed their kids even if they can’t buy new shoes, clothes, books or keep the lights on. Recognizing the problem is socioeconomically culturally ingrained, perhaps across generations, certainly seems more constructive than dismissing them as simply “lazy” and “undisciplined.”
Not anymore. I have been there. My family is still there. All of the stuff you spit out for paragraphs after that are poor excuses. Please do not attempt to play the, “You don’t know what it’s like card;” it does not work so well when the reader does know what it’s like, and finds the attempt to be evasive and rhetorical.