# Whats up with the "gay vioce"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 7, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516 "2010-08-07T15:25:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Crawlspace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Crawlspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crawlspace)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/21 "2010-08-08T04:42:10Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > What’s up with the “straight voice”? Why do straight guys go through life grunting and growling like they’re all auditioning for a NASCAR commercial? Is it a signal to other heterosexuals? Were they born talking like that? And is it always accompanied by those gut punching, back-slapping mannerisms? Did straight guys talk this way back in the 1600s? By and large no they were not born like that, it’s usually picked up sometime in early adolescence when they overly embrace straight culture. It’s not always accompanied by gut punching and back slapping, but the likelihood is magnified if they play high school sports. Now if you could shed some light on the OP that would be great. ---
**Author:** ![Umbriel2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/4af34b/32.png) [@Umbriel2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Umbriel2)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/22 "2010-08-08T05:01:17Z")
> [@Baron\_Skinley\_Von\_Clipper](#): > > > [@panache45](#): > > > > Were they born talking like that? > > No. No one was born talking.:smack: I’ve known a few people I’d be willing to bet were… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/23 "2010-08-08T06:48:12Z")
I just read through the three threads posted, but was not able to find a word that had been mentioned in another, similar post. It was a technical word for a “cultural accent” and the way the poster used it hit home; I’m a stereotypical geek, and I have a large number of mannerisms that identify me as one - as soon as I open my mouth, most people will ask me to fix their computer. And, in the context of the OP, I realized that someone adopting stereotypically “gay” mannerisms was done as unconsciously as I adopted my geeky ones. What was the term? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/24 "2010-08-08T11:25:54Z")
There are also women who talk and gesture like that, as if they need to emphasize that they’re ultra-super-girly. And it is also a cultural phenomenon, both in that it’s about identity with a specific group and in that it’s different in different cultures: in order to get away with speaking like that, a girl in my high school would have needed to already be at the top of the totem pole - and even then, she might have faced “is there something wrong with your wrist now?”; some of my female college classmates on the other hand (all from the same high school, and all thoroughly _pijas_) outflamed the Tenerife Carnaval’s Drag Queen. Pijo is one of those hard-to-translate terms. Something like put-on posh (Vicky Becky’s is known in Spain as la spice pija, no la spice fina… fina would be someone who was posh for real). ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/25 "2010-08-08T13:41:30Z")
Every group, but especially marginalized ones, learn speech and other mannerisms from their confreres. Chances are that some cultural leader among the gays started talking that way and his followers, being followers, started imitating him. Children always learn their speech patterns from their peers, which is why my father, say, spoke unaccented (actually, South Philly accented) English despite the fact that his parents spoke heavily Yiddish accented English. Within a few years of moving to Montreal, I became aware that there is a distinctive Montreal Jewish English accent subtly different from the standard Montreal English accent (not to mention the Montreal accent of a French Canadian speaking English, which is entirely different from that of a Frenchman). Apparently, such changes are the motor of all language change. Cultural leaders adopt a mannerism (some Englishman dropped "r"s in certain contexts, say) and others start emulating him. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/26 "2010-08-08T23:55:37Z")
Just as all we straight people can talk gay at will, I’m certain that all gay people (the one’s who don’t talk normally\*) can speak normally\* at will. \*Don’t take exception. “Normal” is word with strict technical meaning. In the case of language usage, “normal” would be what the majority of people speak in your general locality. In SE Michigan, a southern drawl would be abnormal, as would a gay lisp. Granted this can be subdivided into smaller and smaller sections of you general locality, and in places with a lot of overlap, there may be a couple of norms. Again in SE Michigan, there’s the norm of what you might call “white” (which includes a lot of black speakers), and the norm of black speakers (which is not universal amongst the blacks). The “gay lisp” is a definite outlier for the majority, and I suspect it’s just an affectation. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/27 "2010-08-09T00:34:09Z")
Well, here’s a question then: is this purely an English speaking nation thing or are there equivalent accents in other languages? ---
**Author:** ![Uncertain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Uncertain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncertain)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/28 "2010-08-09T00:35:41Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > It was a technical word for a “cultural accent” and the way the poster used it hit home Could it have been “sociolect”, or some other kind of “-lect”? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/29 "2010-08-09T00:40:44Z")
Speaking of gay voice, what does a gay horse eat? Haaay Doesn’t really work as well as text. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Ericsson-Alien\_69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Ericsson-Alien\_69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ericsson-Alien_69)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/30 "2010-08-09T00:42:20Z")
I think that the gay voice is probably genetic, I have a friend who just found out he was gay, but has talked with the ‘gay voice’ for practically his whole life; meaning that the voice couldn’t be to symbolize that they were gay. I believe that the voice must be genetic. Although there are some gay men that don’t have the gay voice. This might be because they weren’t always gay, or they are masking their voices to avoid any prosecution that people might give them. As for if they talked like that in the 1600’s. They probably did, but were probably run out of town, pretended to be straight, or masked their voices like I mentioned above. Hope it was helpful. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/31 "2010-08-09T02:30:42Z")
I agree that it isn’t intentionally used to identify one’s orientation, but to go from there to genetic is a bit far. We’re not even sure that homosexuality is genetic. One leading theory is that it has to do with the prenatal environment. My own theory could be genetic or environmental: Gay men, even when they don’t know they are gay, have no desire to compete with straight men for the affections of women. Subconsciously, the reason straight men like to have deeper voices is to impress women. But this only gets them to a voice like mine–not too low, and no lisp\*. But then they actually hang around with women or other gay guys a lot. So they wind up naturally mimicking them. And if you don’t know what you are doing, you will naturally close off your voice to make it sound higher, and bring all consonants forward, to the point where you may have lisp. \*My tongue is fat, so my Ls sound sound a little funny, but I sound nothing like the “gay accent.” I only just figured out how to do the accent at all. (It’s fun to give characters different voices in stories. And it sounds better than using falsetto.) ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/32 "2010-08-09T15:23:07Z")
Havin’ a little problem with your police work there… > [@BigT](#): > > Gay men, even when they don’t know they are gay, have no desire to compete with straight men for the affections of women. I’ve always been very retiring and can’t recall ever competing for a woman. In fact, when my woman strayed and it was clear she wasn’t coming back of her own accord, I left her. I do not crave dick. > [@BigT](#): > > Subconsciously, the reason straight men like to have deeper voices is to impress women. Subconsciously, people respond with respect and deference to a deeper voice. Wimmin may like a deep voice, but that would be because they as humans respect and trust the owner on a gut level. A high male voice sounds nervous and is therefore not easily trusted. Example: Woody Allen v. James Earl Jones ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/33 "2010-08-09T18:26:28Z")
> [@Gukumatz](#): > > A Brit acquaintance of mine had the Gay Lisp down, flaming as he was. Unfortunately he actually had a lisp from birth. And his name was Tristram. Poor guy. As a Norwegian, are you so inundated by Anglophone culture that this even registers? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/34 "2010-08-09T18:32:36Z")
[quote=“Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus, post:33, topic:549516”] > [@Gukumatz](#): > > And his name was Tristram. Poor guy. As a Norwegian, are you so inundated by Anglophone culture that the peculiarity of the name even registers? To be honest, I never thought Tristam (Tristan?) was one of those stereotypically gay names, to the extent that it’s even possible. I can’t deny that people make jokes about names like Bruce and Wayne, but it’s patently ridiculous, since name assignment usually occurs years before any sexual orientation manifests itself. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/35 "2010-08-09T18:57:00Z")
> [@digs](#): > > So, anyone else picked it up, maybe as a desire to be accepted? Or maybe like an accent? I pick up accents so effortlessly, I have to try hard _nawt to utilise the Queen’s tongue when returning from Merry Olde, what?_. I’ll have to watch myself after hanging out with my flaaaaaming friends… You leave that Queen’s tongue where it is. I wouldn’t touch it with a bargepole. But people’s accents do change on exposure to other languages or accents. With only a year in Germany I found myself forgetting some of the fine points of English, and my brother told me I had picked up an accent. I recently read a book about Stuart Sutcliffe, the early Beatle who moved to Germany, and, judging by his letters, his English constructions were nearing the level of those that a German would use when beginning to learn English. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/36 "2010-08-09T20:14:33Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > > [@digs](#): > > > > So, anyone else picked it up, maybe as a desire to be accepted? Or maybe like an accent? I pick up accents so effortlessly, I have to try hard _nawt to utilise the Queen’s tongue when returning from Merry Olde, what?_. I’ll have to watch myself after hanging out with my flaaaaaming friends… > > You leave that Queen’s tongue where it is. I wouldn’t touch it with a bargepole. > > But people’s accents do change on exposure to other languages or accents. With only a year in Germany I found myself forgetting some of the fine points of English, and my brother told me I had picked up an accent. I recently read a book about Stuart Sutcliffe, the early Beatle who moved to Germany, and, judging by his letters, his English constructions were nearing the level of those that a German would use when beginning to learn English. Another example of this would be Black people I’ve known, whose speech changes radically, depending on whether they’re using their “black” voice or their “white” voice. I briefly worked with a Black receptionist, who spoke mainstream English flawlessly . . . but when on the phone with her girlfriends, spoke an almost entirely different language. ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/37 "2010-08-10T05:06:21Z")
David Sedaris talks about it in his book _Me Talk Pretty One Day_. I was trying to find the line, but he went to speech therapy when he was a young child due to a sibilant S (saying “th” instead of "s’ which is a typical gay stereotype). He mentioned in the book that the speech therapy class was just a meeting of the Future Homosexuals of America. Many gay men have a nasally quality in their voice. Anyone who listens to David Sedaris can hear it in his voice. Bryan Safi of Current TV also has it. Actors Charles Nelson Reilly and Paul Lynde were well known for their nasally voice, but kept the fact they were gay secret during most of their career. It wasn’t something you revealed back in the 1960s and 1970s. There are many gay men who do not speak this way. Some have trained themselves not to. Others simply never did. I knew a kid in college who came out he was gay, but didn’t have this type of quality in his voice. However, after he came out, he started to act more effeminate and talk with a more nasal voice. Like many things, it could be part organic and part cultural. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/38 "2010-08-10T12:19:33Z")
> [@qazwart](#): > > David Sedaris talks about it in his book _Me Talk Pretty One Day_. I was trying to find the line, but he went to speech therapy when he was a young child due to a sibilant S (saying “th” instead of "s’ which is a typical gay stereotype). Did it indicate whether he also spoke with that sing-song quality? I think that’s more distinctive than the “th” instead of “s” (in Spanish, for example, I certainly don’t think the Europeans Spanish are all gay; many do the same thing with “th” instead of “z.” But they still sound manly). ---
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/39 "2010-08-10T14:42:18Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Well, here’s a question then: is this purely an English speaking nation thing or are there equivalent accents in other languages? There is also a stereotypical “gay” voice in French. I think an English speaking person would be able to pick it up too as “gay” with zero problem. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/40 "2010-08-10T17:41:00Z")
> [@Lazz](#): > > > [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > > > Well, here’s a question then: is this purely an English speaking nation thing or are there equivalent accents in other languages? > > There is also a stereotypical “gay” voice in French. I think an English speaking person would be able to pick it up too as “gay” with zero problem. Oh, definitely in Mexican Spanish as well. You don’t have to know a lick of Spanish, but you’ll know for a fact that it’s a gay accent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516.md?page=3)