# Whats up with the "gay vioce"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 7, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516 "2010-08-07T15:25:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/41 "2010-08-10T17:46:03Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Our church has a GLBT group, and I just assumed the flamboyant gentleman with the eye for accessorizing was “in that club”. We were chatting (he was getting almost giggly over “the innocent little Pinot” that I’d brought, and the Apricot Brie that was “soooo yummy”) and he mentioned that he’d been out to this “under-appreciated little nook of a bistro”_(try saying **that** with a lisp)_, that had “just the most precious escargots”, with his wife. > > I didn’t hear the rest of the paragraph. I think having your jaw drop affects your ability to process language. Please tell me you go to church with Gil Chesterton! ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/42 "2010-08-10T18:27:10Z")
Do deaf gay English-speaking men who learn to speak have any different cadence or tone than deaf straight English-speaking men? ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/43 "2010-08-10T19:20:57Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Another example of this would be Black people I’ve known, whose speech changes radically, depending on whether they’re using their “black” voice or their “white” voice. I briefly worked with a Black receptionist, who spoke mainstream English flawlessly . . . but when on the phone with her girlfriends, spoke an almost entirely different language. In my experience, most black women have both a slang/ebonics/AAVE voice’ and a ‘professional voice’. The slang/black voice we use with our friends is all well and good, but we know we have to pull out that professional voice, by which we mean ‘proper grammar’ at work on the phones. Now, we do a ‘white’ voice too. That is a jokey voice we may do if we are trying to mock white folks. White voice ! = professional voice. For instance, in my white voice, I might say, “Ok, I’ll tell ya what I’m gonna do for ya!” But, in my professional voice, I would never sound that way. I would say, “I’ll tell you what I’m going to do for you”. Just thought I would let you know that for most blacks (that I know) talking ‘white’ doesn’t equal ‘speaking proper English’. For instance, I have a neice that lives in a white neighborhood. Her speaking mannerisms are such that her city cousins tease her for ‘talkin’ white’, but her grammar isn’t anything to brag about. On the other hand, some of the sassiest little neck-sliding, ghetto girls I know have terrific grammar. So yeah. Just my view. ETA: Almost forgot to contribute to the OP. I think the ‘gay talk’ may be a cultural thing that some gays do, and some gays just don’t get into that culture. The ones that do seem to share a lot of mannerisms/slang with inner-city black women. “Heyyy! Girlfriend! Okaaaaayyy!!!???” That sort of thing. Definitley not something all gays would get into. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/44 "2010-08-10T19:58:23Z")
> [@Sigmagirl](#): > > Do deaf gay English-speaking men who learn to speak have any different cadence or tone than deaf straight English-speaking men? There’s a limp-wristed sign language joke in there somewhere… ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/45 "2010-08-10T20:27:20Z")
Professor Michael Bailey at Northwestern University has conducted some [research](http://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/JMichael-Bailey/research.html) on this topic. > [@](#): > > But there are other ways that gay men and lesbians may differ from same-sex heterosexuals. Stereotypes about homosexual people include sex-atypical occupational and recreational interests, superficial aspects of behavior such as movement and speech, and in the case of lesbians, physical appearance. My lab is examining the validity of these stereotypes. If they are true, on average, it will then be important to determine whether they represent innate or social causation (or both). The idea that people’s sexual orientations can sometimes be accurately judged by listening to them say a few (nonsexual) words is fascinating and potentially important in illuminating the origins of sexual orientation and sex differences in articulation patterns. > > In general our lab is confirming the stereotypes, on average. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/46 "2010-08-10T20:48:11Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > > [@Sigmagirl](#): > > > > Do deaf gay English-speaking men who learn to speak have any different cadence or tone than deaf straight English-speaking men? > > There’s a limp-wristed sign language joke in there somewhere… According to [this site](http://books.google.com/books?id=8PhwXf9uj1IC&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=gay+sign+language+dialect&source=bl&ots=ZyML8h_IBI&sig=t3neffWVXirNlLYCLrqmh8aY-e4&hl=en&ei=r7hhTJDZOMvKnAecl_iODw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=gay%20sign%20language%20dialect&f=false), and also to a friend of mine who is an ASL teacher and interpreter, there are recognizable nuances that a person is gay . . . but even more in the sense of slang words than dialect. The problem is that historically, gay deaf people haven’t been a self-identifiable group long enough for this to develop, but there is evidence that it is developing. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/47 "2010-08-10T20:52:02Z")
**Nzinga, Seated** : Back when I was in college I had a close friend who was the only black person in our little group. I never really paid any attention to her speech until I began noticing that every time she went home for a weekend, she came back sounding noticeably different, until her “campus voice” took over again. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/48 "2010-08-10T21:11:45Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > **Nzinga, Seated** : Back when I was in college I had a close friend who was the only black person in our little group. I never really paid any attention to her speech until I began noticing that every time she went home for a weekend, she came back sounding noticeably different, until her “campus voice” took over again. Funny to think of the ribbing she may have gotten from her friends when she first gets home. Until her ‘campus girl’ accent wore off. ---
**Author:** ![TXCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/76d3ee/32.png) [@TXCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TXCowboy)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/49 "2010-08-10T21:51:53Z")
[quote=“Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus, post:34, topic:549516”] > [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > As a Norwegian, are you so inundated by Anglophone culture that the peculiarity of the name even registers? > > To be honest, I never thought Tristam (Tristan?) was one of those stereotypically gay names, to the extent that it’s even possible. I can’t deny that people make jokes about names like Bruce and Wayne, but it’s patently ridiculous, since name assignment usually occurs years before any sexual orientation manifests itself. I may be wrong, but I didn’t take it that he was implying that Tristram was a stereotypical gay name. I took him to mean that was an unfortunate name to have if you were born with a lisp. From his post - **Unfortunately he actually had a lisp from birth. And his name was Tristram. Poor guy.** ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/50 "2010-08-11T06:45:19Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > > [@Lazz](#): > > > > There is also a stereotypical “gay” voice in French. I think an English speaking person would be able to pick it up too as “gay” with zero problem. > > Oh, definitely in Mexican Spanish as well. You don’t have to know a lick of Spanish, but you’ll know for a fact that it’s a gay accent. In Spanish, period. Look for clips with Boris Izaguirre: he’s Venezuelan and (direct translation from Spanish) “has more feathers than a chicken farm”. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/51 "2010-08-11T10:13:39Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Havin’ a little problem with your police work there… > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > Gay men, even when they don’t know they are gay, have no desire to compete with straight men for the affections of women. > > I’ve always been very retiring and can’t recall ever competing for a woman. In fact, when my woman strayed and it was clear she wasn’t coming back of her own accord, I left her. I do not crave dick. > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > Subconsciously, the reason straight men like to have deeper voices is to impress women. > > Subconsciously, people respond with respect and deference to a deeper voice. Wimmin may like a deep voice, but that would be because they as humans respect and trust the owner on a gut level. A high male voice sounds nervous and is therefore not easily trusted. Example: Woody Allen v. James Earl Jones I don’t see how what you are saying contradicts what I am saying. I didn’t say that all straight men compete–just that gay men definitely don’t. And seeing as a lot of them do have deeper voices, apparently that is not enough to make the voice higher. As for being more trustworthy–why would this just apply to men if it were not correlated with sex? If you had said that women with higher voices were less respected as well, we could work it easily with the vocal tension hypothesis I’ll speak more about below. Finally, Woody Allen has a lot more than just his voice going for him–he has quite a few nervous ticks. James Earl Jones on the other hand, has much fewer. There is a correlation of nervous tics to higher voices, though—but the reason is simple: the person who is always stressed will have a more tense vocal tract more often, and thus have more practice speaking in the upper range, while someone who is not will most likely have more relaxed vocal chords, and thus have more experience with the lower end. One last thing–I don’t think you are hijacking by discussing your problems with my answer to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/52 "2010-08-11T13:55:56Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Our church has a GLBT group, and I just assumed the flamboyant gentleman with the eye for accessorizing was “in that club”. We were chatting (he was getting almost giggly over “the innocent little Pinot” that I’d brought, and the Apricot Brie that was “soooo yummy”) and he mentioned that he’d been out to this “under-appreciated little nook of a bistro”_(try saying **that** with a lisp)_, that had “just the most precious escargots”, with his wife. > > I didn’t hear the rest of the paragraph. I think having your jaw drop affects your ability to process language. I saw this show on the Home and Garden channel. This man decorated his whole house in 1950s kitsch. He was flitting around the house talking about this table and that lamp, and came to the bedroom where he had the entire wall decorated in little ballerina stamps. It looked like wall paper, but he explained how he had the stamps made and printed them on the wall. I turned to my son and said “If that guy isn’t gay, he’s in real trouble”. A few minutes later, they had his significant other on, and both my son and I breathed a sign of relief. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/53 "2010-08-11T16:45:58Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > Given, not all gay men speak and act like this, but ONLY gay men speak like this. I hate the “The rare exception proves the OP is wrong” posts that are often so prevalent in threads about the traits of ethnic, racial and cultural groups. Still, I gotta’ mention that I know straight men that do have the “gay accent” or inflection. However, straight men I’ve known or met with the inflection were _always_ involved in some way with the fine arts; working in theater, management at a major symphony or art museum, and so on. One of my friends from my childhood was a theater major in college, and went on to direct a small theatrical group. He’s happily married, to a woman, and has two children. When he opens his mouth, though, he sound as flamboyant as the swishiest interior designer on an HGTV home makeover show. My wild-ass theory: it’s not so much a gay accent as a _theatrical_ accent. Gay men are disproportionately overrepresented in the theatrical profession. The accent “rubs off” on the friends and companions of those working in theater, who are also more likely to be gay. Thus, the gay accent. How can a profession have its own accent? I don’t know, but I think such a thing exists. Listen to airline pilots, ranchers and farmers, truck drivers, and therapists, and they all have an inflection that makes them stand out, and identify themselves to others in the group as being one of them. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516/54 "2010-08-11T17:15:47Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > There are also women who talk and gesture like that, as if they need to emphasize that they’re ultra-super-girly. One thing I almost never hear discussed _anywhere_ is the lesbian accent/inflection. Yes, I can pick it up. It sounds more matter-of-fact and blunt than a typical female voice, with a hint of irony. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-gay-vioce/549516.md?page=2)