# What's up with the hatred of suburbia? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 22, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742 "2011-05-22T01:57:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/141 "2011-05-24T15:27:46Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > \Complaining about aesthetics is really complaining about the fact that people with diverse incomes are buying properties. Only the wealthy can afford to build a house that looks different. Ordinary people like the ones in my neighborhood–teachers, office people, farm workers, firefighters and whatnot–can only afford a stucco splort house. There’s nothing actually wrong with that. > \ You’ve made some interesting points in your posts, and have given me something to think about. > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I’m not jealous at all of people living in Utaupia (or Beigeburbia, if you prefer 🙂 ). My husband had to explain to me that all the people living in identical, repetitive housing developments LIKE that feeling of everyone doing the same thing in lockstep - it comforts them. I hadn’t figured that out on my own - I didn’t get why anyone would choose that life. It’s not right for me, but it’s obviously right for a lot of people.\ Perhaps I’m reading this wrong, but ‘living in lockstep - it comforts them’ this seem rather condescending? > [@monstro](#): > > \ But one thing I’ve noticed is that the inhabitants of many of these places aren’t afraid to put up crazy lawn art or pack their porches with overflowing flower pots and children’s toys. You may look in a window and see a poster of Jack Nickelson from “The Shining” or something else that’s as equally unexpected. Urban neighborhoods tend to allow one to fly their little freak flag, and I like that. \ I don’t believe this is quite fair. My neighbor a few blocks down has had her ‘tree man’ up for years now…staring at me as I walk past, and has just created a lovely horse cover for her electric box. Freaks live in the suburbs too. > [@monstro](#): > > Suburban people are free to dislike that lifestyle as much as they want. But I’m also free to call them boring conformists. See how wonderful it is to be free? The way you phrase this reminds me of the goth kids from south park, dripping with disdain for all the ‘conformists’ when they themselves are conformists as well in their own way. 😉 But then what do I know, I’m a conformist, stepping in lock step with everyone around me, as I live in a suburb. 😉 Granted, it’s an old suburb with nice leafy streets, kids playing all the time, toys overflowing onto yards, and just try to walk past our African American neighbors without stopping for a chat.. > [@lindsaybluth](#): > > \ Pittsburgh has a few of these. _Affluent_ suburbs are really quite nice. \ > > But it’s the 100k starter homes (Ryan homes, basically) churned out by the thousands in horrible, unplanned unincorporated areas that make me nuts. The 3-4 lane traffic is horrible _all the time_. The people universally do this: go to local college or trade school, graduate by 23, get married by 26, have 2 children before 30, get fat. The women often don’t work. Nobody travels except to see relatives. Everyone eats fake Mexican food or fake Chinese food for dinner out. They go to megachurches on Sunday.\ These sections of your post stood out for me. Wow. Just wow. I think dangermom has a point. There is some clear class related disdain going on here. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/142 "2011-05-24T15:29:32Z")
> [@Elret](#): > > I’m bewildered at the insistence that the people who live in suburban environments are all the same. > > … > > People boring and culturally void? Come on. Yeah, me too. I’m kind of appalled. Cities are often great places, but personally I like a little space. So therefore I must be a Stepford wife drone with no culture or intelligence. :rolleyes: Actually I live in a small city, not a suburb of a giant city. And I live in possibly the most white-bread subdivision you could find–which, as it matures, gains more individuality, like all other neighborhoods. It’s full of very nice people who are friendly and amazingly, have their own personalities. Many of us live in this neighborhood because _it’s what we can afford_, as opposed to those older, individual, character-full houses further into town–which just happen to cost a fortune. I don’t know what’s so difficult about the fact that tract houses are _what people can afford._ Oh, that last post showed up while I was typing. Freaky folks definitely live in suburbia too–when I was growing up, the world-famous Purple Lady lived in a tract home. I used to take exchange students by…good times. 🙂 You never know what’s going on behind a bland front door…😃 ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/143 "2011-05-24T16:14:40Z")
I don’t think that the suburbs lack culture. I’ve met plenty of intellectually curious people who live in Northern VA and the Maryland suburbs. As an example, Arlington County is fairly walkable, is close in, and has good public transportation. The housing stock isn’t really lookalike and for the most part, there don’t seem to be rigid HOAs. As I’ve gotten older, I can now see some of the appeal of the suburbs. The crime rates are lower, the houses newer for the most part, and the schools are better. However, at this point in my life, I’m not willing to pay the costs associated with living in the suburbs. My commute is very short and my wife and I are fine with only one car. I can walk to restaurants and stores. In the summer time, there is a farmer’s market six blocks from my house. I’m a twenty five minute scenic walk to the Eastern Market. Even if I choose to drive to a better supermarket it is less than a mile from home and on the way home from work. We are centrally located so we don’t have to go very far for very many things. Once the streetcar installation is complete, it will run two short blocks from my house. There are a few playgrounds and parks I can walk to and let my son run around in. The main attraction for me in the suburbs are the school systems. Fairfax, Arlington and Montgomery County have very good schools, DC really doesn’t. I could probably get more bang for my buck housing wise in Fairfax or Loudoun than I do where I live. I’d certainly have a bigger yard. However, we would need a second car and our commutes would be much further. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/144 "2011-05-24T16:34:04Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Yes, I know _exactly_ what he meant, he meant to denigrate young black men who were doing nothing more than riding a bus as _criminals_ because he didnt’ approve of their conversation – that he wasn’t a part of – and doesn’t like their clothing style. He was more than glad to write them off and describe them as having _no positive future_ because what? They swore too much for his liking? Their clothes were baggy? Their pants were sagging? Their colors were bright? > > If you don’t understand why that’s racist, I suggest you stop and think about it for a little while. > > Frankly, yes, I do. And honestly, I don’t care. But I will call him on it when he thinks he can say offensive things like that as if they’re acceptable. They are not. And neither is defending them. > > And the characterization of “young felon of tomorrow” is entirely about skin color. Young white men dressed like slobs and swearing and acting like jackasses aren’t called future felons, they’re at worst called frat boys, maybe thugs if their manner is threatening. > > More bullshit. > > As a matter of fact, it’s both. > > In what fashion were they appearing dangerous? Were they sporting weapons? Were they menacing strangers? Screaming at old ladies and little children? > > No, the “racism cry” is predictable when you say racist bullshit about young black men who weren’t doing anything even approaching illegal being “future felons.” > > And it amazes me that suburbanites act as if the amenities of the suburbs don’t exist in cities. You specifically described the scope of urban recreational venues as dirty basketball courts. It’s false, you know it’s false, but you said it anyway as if it were true. Do they exist? I’m sure that they do. Are they the be all and end all of urban availability? Obviously not. Is it possible to live in an urban environment in a clean, safe community with beautiful, well-appointed parks and other amenities? Yes it is. > > Then I suggest you broaden your own horizons. > > And where do most of the people live? And what sort of crime is it? > > Right now, I’m watching our local noon news reporting on a _suburban_ family that was murdered in their home last night, all members, including the baby, shot in the head. And a _suburban_ 20 year old woman strangled to death last night in front of her infant child. And an elderly woman who will likely die from severe burns after her _suburban_ home was set on fire. And a conviction in the case of a young woman with developmental disabilities in the _suburbs_ who was beaten and tortured by several young suburbanites for several days, killed, dismembered, put in a trash bag and stuffed under a dumpster at a beautifully appointed, resource laden suburban middle school. > > My point: crime happens everywhere. There will be more crimes where there are more people. Despite being about as centrally urban as possible and despite my complaints about the “decline” of my neighborhood (which amounts to little more than neighbors not being neighborly) the worst thing that’s happened in my neighborhood in years was an unsupervised child being hit when he darted out into the street in front of an oncoming car, which can happen literally anywhere. > > Which further illustrates that you’re talking out of your ear. So maybe you should just stop again. > > That depends, definitely. As I mentioned, I’m dead central urban, on a main thoroughfare and across the street from a paramedic station and it’s quiet here at night. I know; I’m very very rarely asleep before 4 a.m. and sometimes the silence after 10 pm or so is utterly deafening. Oh please. I live in what would be considered between urban and suburb (or ‘closest to suburb poor people can get’). This weekend I went to a 7-11 with multiple meth heads tweaking, a couple of shoplifters, and a hobo that my brother was about to lash out on for getting too close to me. Then my brother drove me home where there was a couple beating the crap out of each other on the front lawn across the street. And I’m sorry to say they were all from one race. Fuck that, I wanna go live in suburbia so I don’t have to deal with that shit. I go over to the rich new shopping complex and hit up the 7-11 there and get some rowdy kids buying Slurpees instead of drug addicts shoplifting. Why wouldn’t I want to live there? Why wouldn’t my brother want to live there, so my niece can play in her front yard and not have to worry about used needles littering the street? Where I live, we’re a long ways away from this urban revitalization you’re talking about. Downtown is homeless diseased-infected crack addicts and disease-infested needles and disease-infested hookers. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/145 "2011-05-24T17:54:40Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I don’t really understand what suburbia haters want us all to do. Move into the cities? But I hate city living, I really do. Right now I live in a suburb of Albany, right on the bordor of it. Albany is a medium sized town, so I live less than ten minutes from downtown. Personally, I don’t expect people to move to the big city. But maybe not buying into subdivisions that are so remote and auto-dependent; encouraging their city council to support diverse infrastructures that support cycling and walkability; getting out of their own cars once in awhile and spending more time within their own community as opposed to commuting to the big city for work/play putting more of a burden on those urban environments. I live in a university town about 20-25 miles south of a big city. I have to commute to work into the outskirts of that city 35 miles roundtrip. My husband does about 60 to the other side of that city. Although we can walk or bike to the store and do plenty of things in our own community in and out of our car, that work commute is a deal-breaker. I’m sad that I’ll be leaving my older, well-established neighborhood filled with dumpy little rentals like mine next to McMansions like ones a block over. We have sidewalks and lots of kids playing in the yards, riding their bikes. We know all our neighbors, even the ones that make way, way more money than we do. It’s an idyllic neighborhood, but we don’t work in our town. So, we’re leaving for a neighborhood located inside the loop. I would totally stay if there existed better transportation issues. As it is I’ve ridden my bike to work several times, but it’s too exhausting to do every day. ---
**Author:** ![Gundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Gundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gundy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/146 "2011-05-24T18:00:47Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I don’t think it is accurate to assume that urban dwellers are jealous of the suburban life style, I think many of the city dwellers posting here could afford to live in the suburbs if they wanted to. > –snip– > The emphasis on safety, it is mentioned many times in this thread, is oppressive. I think that suburbanites are unduly afraid and that this fear has narrowed their life choices into a series of very boring channels. > > I know that is harsh, but it is a thread asking what people don’t like about the burbs. I pretty much agree with all you said, especially the part about safety. If that’s your concern over everything else, I guess I understand, but as for myself I don’t really want to live that way. I have to wonder what city folks like \*\*pullin \*\*and \*\*kushiel \*\*are talking about where the front lawns are all needles and bullets. Maybe I’d feel the way they do about the city if I grew up in Englewood instead of Logan Square, although Logan Square wasn’t exactly the Gold Coast either. I was born and raised in Chicago proper and have lived all over the north side of the city my whole life, save the two years I spent living in a suburb of Boston. My childhood in Logan Square was pretty idyllic, actually. My family was lower-middle-class, almost certainly the poorest people on our rather well-to-do block – but there were lots of block parties, backyard birthday parties, games of kick the can running late into the night in the summer. We walked to the neighborhood school and parks, and my folks sent me to the corner store for this or that as a matter of course once I was old enough – six or seven. There were lots of shops and grocery stores within easy walking distance, as were theaters, libraries, and whatnot. The beach and all the museums and galleries the city has to offer were a bus or train ride away, which meant my parents weren’t stuck ferrying my happy ass around, and it gave me a sense of independence. Got lost a few times, found my way back, you know? As I got older I was able to go to age-appropriate music shows and clubs, too. What some people here seem to think city living necessarily entails is way off base. I’m immensely grateful to my parents for our city upbringing; living here has taught me a lot about how to deal with people that are different from me. I wasn’t insulated from scary things – I was right in the mix at school and in our neighborhood. I think that because of that I can hold my own in a lot of different situations. That’s not to say that this can’t happen in the ‘burbs, but the fearlessness of my parents’ approach to raising a kid in the city and pushing them to take advantage of what the city has to offer really resonated with me. And, I want my kids to be tough the way my parents wanted us to be tough-- not thugs, of course, but unafraid, curious, adventurous, willing to take a risk. Living here helps me do that with my own kids. When my Houston-raised husband and I were house-hunting a few years back, we could easily have found a place in the 'burbs. We could have gotten a much larger house and a much larger yard, and we wouldn’t have had to deal with the wrangling that comes with the Chicago public schools for our kindergartner. My husband’s reverse commute to the northern 'burbs wouldn’t have been quite as soul-killing. But we both are city people at heart, so looking outside the city was a non-starter. The biggest hurdle was that I am an avid gardener and, having grown up on a double city lot, really REALLY wanted a double lot if we could find it. And we did, so we’re happy in our little bungalow with a big (for the city) backyard. We raise our kids here and are involved in their schools and in the community. There are frustrations that occur with city living, of course – probably once every other month there’s someone having a yelling argument on our block at 10 at night, and the litter in the front yard from passing high schoolers seriously pisses me off – but those irritations are worth everything we get in return, like being able to order Thai at 1 in the morning, or hit a museum on a whim, or walk to the corner store instead of firing up the station wagon for an hour-long errand. It’s a trade off that works for us. And I will say for the record that some of the older suburbs here – Evanston, Oak Park, Park Ridge – provide a lot of what is best of urban life, too, just more…sanitized. And, as someone who values privacy and a certain level of anonymity, I appreciate how city folks for the most part stay out of your business. There’s no forced friendliness and if I plant a tomato in my front yard, no one’s going to give me crap for it. It’s funny, now of the four of us I’m the only one that stayed in Chicago; two left for the military and one for school. The sister with the biggest mouth and biggest attitude headed right for the 'burbs. When I visit her it’s…I just don’t like where she lives. There’s nothing there for me, I guess. She loves it – but then, she’s also the one that got up to the most trouble in her teens and she wanted to keep her kids away from that all. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/147 "2011-05-24T18:10:55Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I’m sorry, I have to come back at your use of “cultured” since you did it again. Even the blandest of suburbanites are cultured. If you want to claim your culture is better than theirs—and for all I know it is—please give some sort of measure you can use to compare them. “They have none” is ignorant, but it’s also lazy. I don’t get it. Are you fucking with me or something? Look up the word “hyperbole”. [QUOTE=Lady of the Lake] Perhaps I’m reading this wrong, but ‘living in lockstep - it comforts them’ this seem rather condescending? [/QUOTE] Why? If I see a group of people who all act the same. All dress the same. All went to the same State or Community colleges. All married at the same age. Had kids about the same age. All have similar non-descript jobs in large corporations. All have the same weird aversions to anything outside of their comfort zone. All have the same activities like watching sports and drinking beers. Eat at the same restaurants. Have the same bizarre FOX News inundated world view. What should we be like? Congradulations on realizing your dream of being like everyone else you know? Way to think for yourself (good think you happen to think just like everyone else)? Good job avoiding risk? I think what we are really talking about here is “Middle America” more than suburbs. The suburbs of NYC for example in Westchester, NY, New Jersey and Connecticut are filled with former Manhattanites who have moved further out to save money and get more space to raise a family. They don’t all turn into fat Stepford retards, but there is that connotation that people leave the city to “settle in” to that suburban lifestyle I mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/148 "2011-05-24T18:11:52Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > A couple of years ago we were driving somewhere from NYC to NJ and it took us an hour to cross a six mile bridge. And everyone just took it as routine. “Oh, an hour is nothing!” That’s bullshit! I don’t want to live in a place like that. The irony, ir burns us. That wouldn’t be your life if you lived in NYC. Over half of New York City residents don’t own a car, and it’s 75% in Manhattan. That would be your life if you lived in the _New Jersey suburbs_ of Manhattan. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/149 "2011-05-24T18:21:46Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Oh, and Tom Lehrer is an authority on what? Suburbs? Folk songs? Sanctimony? Please. :rolleyes: OK, of all the things said so far in this thread, **this** is the most eye-rolling. You seriously do not know who Tom Lehrer is? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/150 "2011-05-24T18:26:48Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I don’t get it. Are you fucking with me or something? Look up the word “hyperbole”. I’m not fucking with you, and I know what “hyperbole” means. We’re just using different definitions of culture, and I’m asking you to be more precise. You’re not going to, and I’m going to shut up about it. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/151 "2011-05-24T18:33:18Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Personally, I don’t expect people to move to the big city. But maybe not buying into subdivisions that are so remote and auto-dependent; encouraging their city council to support diverse infrastructures that support cycling and walkability; getting out of their own cars once in awhile and spending more time within their own community as opposed to commuting to the big city for work/play putting more of a burden on those urban environments. And I do all of those things. I moved from a distant suburb to a much closer suburb. I now ride my bike throughout most of the summer to work. I do spend most of my time in my own city; I rarely leave my comfort zone now. I love my tiny little suburb, I love that it borders directly onto the city. > [@Hello Again](#): > > The irony, ir burns us. That wouldn’t be your life if you lived in NYC. Over half of New York City residents don’t own a car, and it’s 75% in Manhattan. That would be your life if you lived in the New Jersey suburbs of Manhattan. You are right, and I am not disputing you…but that is only one tiny tiny aspect of city living. You did not mention all of the other things that change drastically when you move from small-town or suburbia to the City. It was just one small example that I stated, that when I want to get out of the City, I must fight oodles of traffic, or take public transportation and fight oodles of people. Besides, I really don’t want to completely do without a car at all in this day and age. Maybe some other people can, but my family and his family are all spread out. We both drive good gas mileage older mid-size sedans, and I plan for my next car to be a hatchback and even better at mileage, but I can’t give up a car entirely. We have a gigantic country and it seems foolish and silly to all cram ourselves into cities, even when we hate city life. ---
**Author:** ![tingbudong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tingbudong/32/520_2.png) [@tingbudong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tingbudong)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/152 "2011-05-24T18:48:23Z")
I’m not sure if it has been mentioned previously, but for some people and families, low density suburbs represent the only form of housing they can afford (even when commuting and car ownership is factored in). In many ways suburbs, despite their obvious drawbacks, make large cities affordable. I’m not inherently opposed to low-density housing, but I strongly believe that one of the best things suburbs can do for themselves is to diversify their housing stock to allow for more ownership/rental choice which can (theoretically) create a more diverse population. Also easing zoning restrictions on compatible commercial uses within residential areas will also do a lot to mitigate the single-use weakness and lack of redundancy that is rampant in such communities Some have argued that suburbs, especially those that were devastated during the recession might represent the new ‘slum’. In many situations, the former holder of that title were the inner city regions which (in many jurisdictions) have been seeing a comeback stoked by gentrification. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/153 "2011-05-24T18:53:14Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > OK, of all the things said so far in this thread, **this** is the most eye-rolling. You seriously do not know who Tom Lehrer is? [Poisoning Pigeons in the Park](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhuMLpdnOjY). Yeah, I know. Still wondering how this makes him an authority on sanctimony in folk songs. I did not know he was a polymath, but I still don’t know how his supposed authority makes his comment about _Little Boxes_ anything more than an opinion about a folk song. Gee, he must have an asshole, too! So, whoopdefuckingdo, Tom Lehrer thinks _Little Boxes_ is sanctimonious. Stop the presses! This changes everything! 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/154 "2011-05-24T18:56:11Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > And I do all of those things. I moved from a distant suburb to a much closer suburb. I now ride my bike throughout most of the summer to work. I do spend most of my time in my own city; I rarely leave my comfort zone now. I love my tiny little suburb, I love that it borders directly onto the city. Great! That’s pretty much the direction I’m headed in as well. ---
**Author:** ![Brandus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Brandus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brandus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/155 "2011-05-24T18:57:59Z")
Suburbs are full of old and boring people. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/156 "2011-05-24T19:02:19Z")
> [@Gundy](#): > > I pretty much agree with all you said, especially the part about safety. If that’s your concern over everything else, I guess I understand, but as for myself I don’t really want to live that way… Yeah, and what’s weird about this fear of the city isn’t really warranted since crime in many cities is at its lowest point in 40 years [Don't Fear the City: Urban America's Crime Drops to Lowest in 40 Years - The Atlantic](http://www.theatlantic.com/national/print/2011/05/dont-fear-the-city-urban-americas-crime-drops-to-lowest-in-40-years/239366). > [@](#): > > Crime – both property crime and violent crime – is down to its lowest level in 40 years, especially in America’s biggest cities, according to newly released data from the FBI’s annual Uniform Crime Report. The data was collected from January through December 2010 and breaks out metropolitan and non-metropolitan areas as well as cities of various sizes. For the fourth year in a row, there has been yet another substantial decline in crime: 5.5 percent fewer murders, forcible rapes, robberies, and aggravated assaults were reported in 2010 than in 2009; property crimes fell by 2.8 percent over the same period and reported arsons dropped by 8.3 percent. “In all regions, the country appears to be safer,” reports the New York Times. “The odds of being murdered or robbed are now less than half of what they were in the early 1990s, when violent crime peaked in the United States.” For another thing, I just visited Chicago for the first time last week and it seriously rocks. Millenium Park is one of the coolest public spaces I have ever seen in my life, and I like pickles on my hotdogs, but DC has free museums, so I’m not sweating it either. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/157 "2011-05-24T19:08:53Z")
The neighborhood I grew up in was a pretty standard subdivision built in the 50’s-60’s. The houses were all from a menu of 7-10 models. So I had friends who lived in “my” kind of house and other friends who lived in “that kind” of house. But, there was no HOA and no restrictions that I knew of other than the building code and zoning laws. So when my family arrived at this 15-20 year old subdivision, most every house was different in some significant way. Many had additions. Others had interesting paint schemes or at least different landscaping. The previous owner of our house had turned the ordinally sealed off space under the kitchen foundation into a storage area with a door to the back yard. My folks added a second floor deck to the back. All over the neighborhood, the residents had removed much of the cookie-cutter effect. But, as mentioned above, you can’t get that nowadays thanks to HOAs that prevent any significant changes to your house or property. Conform or be cast out. As a planner, I now “hate” subdivisions because of the sprawl effect. They almost always require new utility lines and capacity to be added to the county budget. They are insular by design nowadays. The love of gated communities is especially bad in this regard. This insularity generates concentrated traffic loads on certain roads instead of spreading loads out the way an integrated road network does. There were three or four ways to get out of my old neighborhood by car. The developers I deal with now had to be dragged kicking and screaming to agree to make even a second entrance to their proposed subdivisions. (I used past tense because the housing bust killed off that industry down here.) So with only one way in and out of a neighborhood, all the traffic is routed onto one road. Incidentally, people REALLY hate it when another, later, neighborhood is connected to theirs by road. “MY CHILDREN WILL BE RUN DOWN IN THE STREET BY THOSE MANIACS!” Even when the road connection was planned from the begining because the new neighborhood is really just a later phase of the same development. So, not only do you have all traffic being poured into a few key roads, the general remoteness of many of these neighborhoods means that you are forced into using a car to do any kind of out of house task like working, shopping, or visiting friends. I’d better stop now. ---
**Author:** ![Gundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Gundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gundy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/158 "2011-05-24T19:39:43Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Yeah, and what’s weird about this fear of the city isn’t really warranted since crime in many cities is at its lowest point in 40 years [Don't Fear the City: Urban America's Crime Drops to Lowest in 40 Years - The Atlantic](http://www.theatlantic.com/national/print/2011/05/dont-fear-the-city-urban-americas-crime-drops-to-lowest-in-40-years/239366). > > For another thing, I just visited Chicago for the first time last week and it seriously rocks. Millenium Park is one of the coolest public spaces I have ever seen in my life, and I like pickles on my hotdogs, but DC has free museums, so I’m not sweating it either. Nobody buys it when I tell them crime in cities has been down for a long time. And to continue the city lovefest, I visited DC for the first time about two years ago and loved it. Especially the free museums. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/159 "2011-05-24T19:41:36Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I don’t get it. Are you fucking with me or something? Look up the word “hyperbole”. > > Why? If I see a group of people who all act the same. All dress the same. All went to the same State or Community colleges. All married at the same age. Had kids about the same age. All have similar non-descript jobs in large corporations. All have the same weird aversions to anything outside of their comfort zone. All have the same activities like watching sports and drinking beers. Eat at the same restaurants. Have the same bizarre FOX News inundated world view. What should we be like? Congradulations on realizing your dream of being like everyone else you know? Way to think for yourself (good think you happen to think just like everyone else)? Good job avoiding risk? > > I think what we are really talking about here is “Middle America” more than suburbs. The suburbs of NYC for example in Westchester, NY, New Jersey and Connecticut are filled with former Manhattanites who have moved further out to save money and get more space to raise a family. They don’t all turn into fat Stepford retards, but there is that connotation that people leave the city to “settle in” to that suburban lifestyle I mentioned. Fat Stepford Retards: band name! For what it’s worth, I agree 100% it’s a Middle America thing more than a suburb thing. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742/160 "2011-05-24T19:42:39Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I’m not fucking with you, and I know what “hyperbole” means. We’re just using different definitions of culture, and I’m asking you to be more precise. You’re not going to, and I’m going to shut up about it. He has clearly stated his definition of suburban culture. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-hatred-of-suburbia/582742.md?page=9)