# What's up with the language police lately? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 4, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247 "2015-05-04T15:01:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/61 "2015-05-05T12:27:05Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It’s not complicated. We are just now are addressing the word “retard.” It’s been taboo since at least 2010. We’re talking about “thug” as if it’s a word that normal everyday people actually use, and not a word that suddenly started being popular again to describe Trayvon Martin and now any black criminal. Before that, it was an old-timey word. > > And, worst of all, we’ve had a problem with “cunt” since 2009 on this very board. And the OP is just now noticing it. Thank you. I guess I haven’t noticed any discussion of any of this \*here \*prior to this thread. It is also not my experience that “thug” hasn’t been widely used until the Trayvon Martin incident. I stopped using “retard” as an insult some time in middle school and as I said, “cunt” doesn’t bother me and I use it IRL whenever the situation warrants it but I don’t _need_ to use enough to care that it’s not allowed here. Just my take on things, but I appreciate you trying to explain \*\*marshmallow’s \*\*comments. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/62 "2015-05-05T12:48:38Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Plus “cunt” has oddly become gender neutral. I use “cunt” almost exclusively as a male term. “Mike? You mean Ed’s cousin? That cunt?” A woman would have to be the female equivalent of Hitler for me to call her a cunt. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/63 "2015-05-05T13:15:26Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > [snip] We’re talking about “thug” as if it’s a word that normal everyday people actually use, and not a word that suddenly started being popular again to describe Trayvon Martin and now any black criminal. Before that, it was an old-timey word. The earliest period of _thug_’s currency was when it described, say, “gunman, heavy.” In the last few decades, “thug” was reborn in rap culture. It did not, necessarily, mean black criminal. There are connotations of camaraderie and tribal membership. I think it was Tupac who had THUGLIFE tattooed on his stomach. (It’s interesting to research what he said it stood for.) I submit that this is an interesting, and complicating, part of _thug_’s current sociolinguistic trajectory. I may look up Wm. Labov (linguist in black English vernacular) to see if he says anything about it yet… (Unnecessary academic-speak? Yeah, I’m hoping it’s a mood.) ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/64 "2015-05-05T13:25:55Z")
\*\*I found this bit of text, unsourced but informative (BONUS: Bob Dole reference!) \*\* The word thug has a long history in English usage dating back to at least the mid 1800s. It has been extensively used in US vernacular to mean a violent criminal. To the extent that the term thug has a current association with race, it may date back to the African-American hip-hop group Thug Life that issued albums (including a song entitled Thug LIfe) beginning in the early 1990s. The group was disbanded when one of the members, Tupac Shakur was killed. At least one source claims that the choice of the group name was based upon certain mainstream reactions to hip hop music. During the early 1990’s, several politicians, including Bob Dole had characterized rap artists as Thugs. Indeed, this was taken as an attack on the hip hop community as a whole. _Many, including the late Tupac Shakur, had rejected the criminal implication. It was clear to those in the hip hop community that anyone who attempts to rise from despair would be labeled a Thug. Hence, Thug Life became a phrase meaning “the life one must lead in order to rise through the everyday struggle”; understood by those “in the know” and misunderstood by all others. [emph mine]_ Mr. Sherman’s reaction may reflect this pattern of characterization of hip-hop and a belief that the negative associations are extended to the African-American community as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/65 "2015-05-05T13:39:11Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I doubt that they whinny. You’ve almost found my embedded joke there. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/66 "2015-05-05T13:46:48Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I love how people characterize “being told to be nice and not unnecessarily offend minorities” as “being bullied.” Do you also feel “bullied” into not saying “nigger” or “fag”? It’s the exact same issue. > > You want to continue to use the word with people you know will understand, fine. You want to make a consentrated effort to use the term 100% accurately and try to keep the word from becoming a racial epithet? Foolish and doomed to fail, but at least noble. > > But to use it because you are offended that people find it offensive? That’s just ridiculous. Very well put. Old white men are upset that the retards and women are getting an attitude these days. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/67 "2015-05-05T15:41:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I love how people characterize “being told to be nice and not unnecessarily offend minorities” as “being bullied.” Do you also feel “bullied” into not saying “nigger” or “fag”? It’s the exact same issue. > > You want to continue to use the word with people you know will understand, fine. You want to make a consentrated effort to use the term 100% accurately and try to keep the word from becoming a racial epithet? Foolish and doomed to fail, but at least noble. > > But to use it because you are offended that people find it offensive? That’s just ridiculous. Do you do spin for some politician? The last sentence of the first paragraph is just provocative nonsense, and you should be ashamed of ascribing that sort of thing to someone you don’t know. The last sentence of your post is a straw man argument, as it doesn’t resemble anything I said in the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/68 "2015-05-05T15:48:37Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I love how people characterize “being told to be nice and not unnecessarily offend minorities” as “being bullied.” Do you also feel “bullied” into not saying “nigger” or “fag”? It’s the exact same issue. > > You want to continue to use the word with people you know will understand, fine. You want to make a consentrated effort to use the term 100% accurately and try to keep the word from becoming a racial epithet? Foolish and doomed to fail, but at least noble. > > But to use it because you are offended that people find it offensive? That’s just ridiculous. So, if you were gay, would you do your best to hide your gayness to not offend anyone at a gathering of conservative Bapists? ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/69 "2015-05-05T16:07:35Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I love how people characterize “being told to be nice and not unnecessarily offend minorities” as “being bullied.” Do you also feel “bullied” into not saying “nigger” or “fag”? It’s the exact same issue. > > You want to continue to use the word with people you know will understand, fine. You want to make a consentrated effort to use the term 100% accurately and try to keep the word from becoming a racial epithet? Foolish and doomed to fail, but at least noble. > > But to use it because you are offended that people find it offensive? That’s just ridiculous. Not to speak for **Chefguy** , since that is who you were responding to with the above, but I think it does tend to rankle when people, society, whoever, ascribe certain thoughts and feelings to strangers because of their own interpretation of a word or expression. I didn’t even know “thug” was controversial and now that I know, well, I don’t particularly care. I know what I mean when I use it and I’m fairly certain that I know how to convey it in a way that no one would think I was calling all black men criminals. There is definitely something to be said for trying to respect others’ feelings; making blanket assumptions about peoples’ motivations isn’t really all that cool though. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/70 "2015-05-05T16:13:24Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I doubt that they whinny. Braying might be the more appropriate term? 😃 [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/gROO7xSTxfY/hqdefault.jpg "Braying Donkey") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gROO7xSTxfY) ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/71 "2015-05-05T19:37:19Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Because men aren’t insulted by the derogatory use of dick, cock, junk, etc? Are you really telling me euphemisms for male genitals aren’t used insultingly? You’re right, of course, but I do see some inherent sexism in the fact that cunt is apparently the worst word out there. A cunt is a beautiful thing. Most guys like cunts! Etc. ETA: It’s kind of like calling someone a cocksucker. I heard a beautiful retort to that which I love: “What’s wrong with being a cocksucker? Some of my best friends are cocksuckers.” Edit the edit to add: But I do roll my eyes that apparently “thug” is now a racist word. Years ago I think I may have lost a friend over the usage of “urban”. I meant “urban children” as “children who live in the city”. Admittedly, I wasn’t being nice, because they were playing in the middle of the street, but I wasn’t being racist. I missed the memo, however, that “urban” now meant “black”, but I got quickly enough from her reaction that I had done something pretty wrong. Whoops. And I really couldn’t explain in any way that anyone would believe me. So, yes, language changes. Doesn’t mean it’s not annoying. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/72 "2015-05-05T19:48:19Z")
Once people convince themselves that you are a racist, everything you say becomes code for “black”. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/73 "2015-05-05T19:52:50Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Once people convince themselves that you are a racist, everything you say becomes code for “black”. I think most of the problems are caused by these damn Lithuanians. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/74 "2015-05-05T19:52:57Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > President Obama used the term ‘thug’ to describe the rioters. Well that settles it. Since the “t-word” is now the new “n-word” then the President is racist against black people. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/75 "2015-05-05T19:55:28Z")
I’m going back to Thugee, just to be safe. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/76 "2015-05-05T20:18:53Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Once people convince themselves that you are a racist, everything you say becomes code for “black”. Like the saying says: If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/77 "2015-05-05T20:19:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > People are running out of _actual_ offenses to human decency to be outraged by, and thus must invent them. Exactly, and exhibit A is the hand-fluttering in the OP. Language police? Bullying? Comparisons to fucking Big Brother? Oh, the horrors! If you swoon, allow me to catch you! Language police: no. Nobody is saying it’s against the law for a person to make a fool of themselves or to reveal that they’re racist. Newsflash: YOU ARE ALLOWED TO SAY RACIST THINGS. Bullying: no. Being called on bad behavior– **even when you don’t agree that it’s bad behavior** –is not bullying. Otherwise, the first post would be bullying! It’s not, it’s just misguided and foolish. Big Brother: are you fucking kidding me? Come back when someone locks your head in a cage full of hungry rats because you used the word “thug.” Until then, Worst Analogy Evar. Seriously, people, get over yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/78 "2015-05-05T20:37:30Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Like the saying says: If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Conversely, if you go around hammering spikes into people, folks are gonna suspect your closed hand is full of nails. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/79 "2015-05-06T00:50:33Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Exactly, and exhibit A is the hand-fluttering in the OP. Language police? Bullying? Comparisons to fucking Big Brother? > > Oh, the horrors! If you swoon, allow me to catch you! > > Language police: no. Nobody is saying it’s against the law for a person to make a fool of themselves or to reveal that they’re racist. Newsflash: YOU ARE ALLOWED TO SAY RACIST THINGS. > Bullying: no. Being called on bad behavior– **even when you don’t agree that it’s bad behavior** –is not bullying. Otherwise, the first post would be bullying! It’s not, it’s just misguided and foolish. > Big Brother: are you fucking kidding me? Come back when someone locks your head in a cage full of hungry rats because you used the word “thug.” Until then, Worst Analogy Evar. > > Seriously, people, get over yourselves. Could you direct us to the “hand wringing” in the OP? I read it as someone who was commenting on what he perceived as a (new) spate of political correctness. It was pretty devoid of emotion, IMO. Also, though I know I’m going to regret letting myself get dragged into this conversation, but who exactly is the governing body of “calling people out” on “bad behavior”? It’s quite a source of relief that “nobody” is condemning anyone for “making a fool of themselves”, although it would be helpful to know who exactly makes these offical calls and what the criteria are. After all, if one has the authority to “call” strangers on their “bad behavior” it’s only fair that we all know exactly who these arbitors of righteousness are. I don’t really have a dog in this fight; let’s say I’m playing more of a devil’s advocate role. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247/80 "2015-05-06T01:04:47Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > Could you direct us to the “hand wringing” in the OP? I paraphrased in the bit you quoted (and given your paraphrase of me in quotes, you ought to know how that works), but sure: > [@mbh](#): > > double-plus-un-good > crimethink > double-plus-un-good > crimethink > double-plus-un-good > crimethink And of course the title’s use of “language police.” I’m genuinely not sure how you missed those parts of the OP. > [@](#): > > Also, though I know I’m going to regret letting myself get dragged into this conversation, but who exactly is the governing body of “calling people out” on “bad behavior”? The hell are you talking about? Presumably it’s the same governing body that wrote your post, i.e., there’s no goddamn thing like you’re talking about, and I’m not sure how you think the absence of a governing body has anything to do with anything. > [@](#): > > After all, if one has the authority to “call” strangers on their “bad behavior” it’s only fair that we all know exactly who these arbitors of righteousness are. It is a credit to your fair-mindedness that you’ve addressed this criticism equally at the OP, who doesn’t just call people out for perceived bad behavior, but actually compares them to a dystopic murderous tyrant. > [@](#): > > I don’t really have a dog in this fight; let’s say I’m playing more of a devil’s advocate role. The devil rarely needs an advocate, but if he did, surely he’d want a better one than he’s getting here :). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-up-with-the-language-police-lately/719247.md?page=5)