# What's with all the passive voice hate? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 29, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289 "2014-04-29T17:19:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/1 "2014-04-29T17:19:53Z")
I hear a lot from supposed experts that the passive voice is disfavored. Why? What’s wrong with it? [Example](https://writingcenter.unc.edu/handouts/passive-voice/). ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/2 "2014-04-29T17:21:37Z")
It’s easier to come up with a few ‘easy’ rules than to actually learn how to write effectively. There’s nothing wrong with the passive voice and more often than not, the people railing against it do abysmally at identifying it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/3 "2014-04-29T17:25:12Z")
That is my impression also. I was _taught_ to write in the passive voice, at least for scientific purposes. ---
**Author:** ![freckafree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freckafree/32/3050_2.png) [@freckafree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freckafree)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/4 "2014-04-29T17:29:46Z")
I think the criticism is aimed at the use of passive voice to obfuscate. “It was decided that…” makes it difficult to determine who made the decision, should the decision be a controversial or unpopular one. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/5 "2014-04-29T17:30:04Z")
In his book _On Writing_, Stephen King, speaking specifically of fiction, says that passive voice sounds weak and timid, is tortuous, and makes the object rather than the subject the focus of the sentence. As it happens, I agree with him. Passive voice in fiction is nails on a chalkboard to me. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/6 "2014-04-29T17:37:44Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > In his book _On Writing_, Stephen King, speaking specifically of fiction, says that passive voice sounds weak and timid, is tortuous, and makes the object rather than the subject the focus of the sentence. As it happens, I agree with him. Passive voice in fiction is nails on a chalkboard to me. Here we have it. Remember kids, the passive voice should not be used. Also, don’t use no double negatives. When dangling, watch your participles. If a mixed metaphor sprouts up, it should be derailed. Avoid cliches like the plague. No sentence fragments. One should never generalize. It is important to never split an infinitive. A preposition is not an appropriate thing to end a sentence with. Don’t write run on sentences they are hard to read. Who needs rhetorical questions? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/7 "2014-04-29T17:38:22Z")
It is an example of how scientific writing differs from fiction writing. In scientific writing you keep yourself out of it for the most part, and use “we” instead of “I” even for single author papers. In fiction your character is more interesting if he acts instead of is acted upon. You can put the subject earlier in the sentence (I threw the ball versus The ball was thrown by me) and that makes the sentence flow better. Passives sneak into my first draft due to my technical writing - it always sounds better when I expunge them. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/8 "2014-04-29T17:42:21Z")
Passive voice, especially in fiction, is harder to read and obfuscates meaning by shrouding the subject. Either you’re meandering. Or you’re trying to be clever. Or you have a misguided perception that wordiness and long sentences mean you’re a better writer. Whatever it is, stop it. Simplify, simplify, simplify. It’s very hard to write a short sentence in passive voice. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/9 "2014-04-29T17:44:59Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > Passive voice in fiction is nails on a chalkboard to me. That sounds awful. I can’t imagine you read much fiction then. I mean, a person can’t even get past the first sentence of Left Hand of Darkness without tripping over a passive. LeGuin, such a hack. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/10 "2014-04-29T17:54:31Z")
I don’t mean in fiction. I haven’t taken a creative writing class since 1998 or so. I mean _everywhere_. My college professors docked me for using the passive form in term papers - and while I may not have sourced all my assertions I definitely didn’t make them up. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/11 "2014-04-29T17:56:47Z")
> [@LibrarySpy](#): > > It’s very hard to write a short sentence in passive voice. He got shot. This shirt needs tailoring. He sat with his arms folded. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/12 "2014-04-29T18:17:58Z")
> [@Inner Stickler](#): > > He got shot. That’s the only passive voice example of yours, much better expressed as: The bullet struck him. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/13 "2014-04-29T18:20:34Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > He sat with his arms folded. I don’t think this is passive voice. ‘Sat’ may be a relatively passive voice, but still whoever’s doing the sitting is the subject of the sentence. Re: **LibrarySpy** ’s similar objection, I think the second can be passive voice. The active version is ‘I need to tailor my shirt’ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/14 "2014-04-29T18:25:36Z")
The first is a _get passive_, the second is a _concealed passive_\* which use gerund participles rather than past participles, and the last, arms folded, is a _bare passive_. Like I said, the people who complain rarely know what they look like. \*If your dialect allows for past-participial bare passive complements, then you can say “This shirt needs tailored.” ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/15 "2014-04-29T18:28:32Z")
My bad. Those weren’t covered in **Really Not All That Bright** ’s link. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/16 "2014-04-29T18:28:59Z")
Regardless of whether **Inner Stickler** ’s examples are “better” or “worse”, I’m not seeing anything that justifies the blanket rule writers are supposed to observe. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/17 "2014-04-29T18:46:36Z")
The passive voice has been discussed here [many times before](https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8#q=%22passive+voice%22+site:straightdope.com&safe=off), most recently just last month. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/18 "2014-04-29T18:55:15Z")
Guess I should have searched first. Or perhaps, “a search should have been performed”. 😉 One of those threads has a [nearly identical title](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=357485), too. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/19 "2014-04-29T19:17:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Regardless of whether **Inner Stickler** ’s examples are “better” or “worse”, I’m not seeing anything that justifies the blanket rule writers are supposed to observe. I make no claims as to the subjective quality of my examples. They are merely a response to the idea that it is difficult to write a short passive clause. I leave it to the reader to judge their literary worth. I’m not arguing that passive voice is better than active or that people are wrong to prefer or not prefer various constructions. I simply happen to think that people are unaware, for whatever reason, of just how expansive passive voice is and how useful it can be. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289/20 "2014-04-29T19:28:34Z")
> [@LibrarySpy](#): > > That’s the only passive voice example of yours, much better expressed as: > > The bullet struck him. “You know what happened to the _last_ guy who thought he could clean up this town? He got shot.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-passive-voice-hate/687289.md?page=2)