# What's with all the raven-haired women in movies forty years ago? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 25, 2013, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327 "2013-02-25T06:14:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/1 "2013-02-25T06:14:17Z")
I thought of asking this in GQ as it is also something I have noticed in family photo albums and the like, but lately it has been standing out from early '70s movies (documentary and fictional). It seems like back then, so many more women had really dark hair together with fair skin. (I’m talking about non-Hispanic white women here; obviously the Latino population has grown substantially since that time.) Was it a Liz Taylor-inspired fashion thing, so they were dyeing their hair black? Or is it so **un** fashionable now that women who would otherwise have very dark hair tend to have lightened it? Or am I imagining the whole thing? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/2 "2013-02-25T07:42:13Z")
It’s was just a fad. Just like you see a lot of today’s women wearing their hair sort in the back and long on the front. (Actually, is that still popular? I don’t get out much.) ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/3 "2013-02-25T08:16:36Z")
So, fad as in they actually dyed it black? ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/4 "2013-02-25T08:36:42Z")
Hair dyes today are much subtler? Maybe back then if they dyed their hair dark the only thing available was Flat Black? For the contrast for the lighting and cameras they used then? Is that what you mean? I’m not sure what you mean. In old movies, men with blond hair often showed up onscreen with a screaming yellow on their heads. The women were bleached platinum. Which I also think had to do with how the hair color showed up onscreen using the equipment they had then. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/5 "2013-02-25T08:39:36Z")
Right, but I mean more “realistic” movies, from the gritty '70s, including documentaries. Also photo albums of “real people” too. The movie that I was watching just before posting was a documentary called Nim, about the famous chimpanzee. They showed photos of the woman who raised him, and I immediately thought “that dark hair looks really early '70s”, and sure enough it was 1973. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/6 "2013-02-25T13:27:59Z")
Seems to me the “it” girl of the early 70s was Ali McGraw, not Liz Taylor, already a standard-bearer of “old Hollywood” by then. Other pace-setting brunettes then: Lainie Kazan, Valerie Harper, Susan St. James. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/7 "2013-02-25T16:19:39Z")
I once saw an interesting project someone did, where they merged the faces of a bunch of Old Hollywood starlets from the 30s and 40s, and then in a different picture merged the faces of some contemporary (ie 2000s) starlets. The composite faces were quite different. The Old Hollywood one was more “exotic”, the more modern one had the “all-American” look popular since at least the 80s. Tastes change. ---
**Author:** ![Kepler1571](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/db5fbb/32.png) [@Kepler1571](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kepler1571)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/8 "2013-02-25T16:25:05Z")
Periods have a “look.” The golden age of movies had all those curvaceous women with overdeveloped thighs from dancing. The 70’s had the look you cite. Today’s movies have insectoid women with plastic face, accessories, and personalities. There are probably similar fads with leading men, I just don’t notice them for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Righteous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Dr.Righteous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Righteous)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/9 "2013-02-25T16:38:38Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Or is it so **un** fashionable now that women who would otherwise have very dark hair tend to have lightened it? I think its more this. So many times recently you see a woman in Hollywood start out as a brunette and over time (or sometimes even pretty suddenly) you’ll see her become blonde. It’s like women with curly hair - so many of them straighten it that it appears more rare than I think it actually is. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/10 "2013-02-25T17:50:56Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > I once saw an interesting project someone did, where they merged the faces of a bunch of Old Hollywood starlets from the 30s and 40s, and then in a different picture merged the faces of some contemporary (ie 2000s) starlets. > > The composite faces were quite different. The Old Hollywood one was more “exotic”, the more modern one had the “all-American” look popular since at least the 80s. > > Tastes change. oooh, could you possibly link to that if it was online? Or provide some google search terms? I would be really interested in seeing it ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/11 "2013-02-25T18:09:52Z")
Advances in hair dye technology are probably playing a role here as well. Getting a natural-looking blond shade can be tricky what with highlighting and all, and the dyes and techniques weren’t as advanced as they are now. A woman who wanted to ramp up her hair color but still look natural would probably do better going darker, especially if she was dyeing it at home. And the natural look was most definitely “in” in the '70s. ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/12 "2013-02-25T18:26:35Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > oooh, could you possibly link to that if it was online? Or provide some google search terms? I would be really interested in seeing it A quick search gives: [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2008/03/which-of-these-two-women-is-more.html](http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2008/03/which-of-these-two-women-is-more.html) See also [https://pmsol3.wordpress.com/](https://pmsol3.wordpress.com/) ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/13 "2013-02-25T18:27:24Z")
Yes, great advances have been made in getting a ‘natural look’ which photographs well on the movie screen today… Some colors, not just clothing, but hair, needed to be the right tone when black and white movie photography was done. … And as women age, brunettes tend to go lighter, even to blond, to cover up the gray. Even Liz Taylor went blond late in life. ---
**Author:** ![FrankJBN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@FrankJBN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrankJBN)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/14 "2013-02-25T18:37:29Z")
“all the raven-haired women in movies forty years ago” You mean like farrah Fawcett, Bo Derek, Ann-Margaret, Faye Dunaway, Suzanne Somers, Cheryl ladd, Diane Keaton, Liv Ullman, Julie Christie, Cybil Shepard and Sissy Spacek? ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/15 "2013-02-25T18:47:22Z")
> [@Natlaw](#): > > A quick search gives: [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2008/03/which-of-these-two-women-is-more.html](http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2008/03/which-of-these-two-women-is-more.html) > > See also [https://pmsol3.wordpress.com/](https://pmsol3.wordpress.com/) Thanks! That was awesome. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/16 "2013-02-25T19:37:16Z")
Isn’t darker hair the norm? That would account for much, if correct. Probably lighting, etc…would account for the rest. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/17 "2013-02-25T20:14:22Z")
> [@FrankJBN](#): > > “all the raven-haired women in movies forty years ago” > > You mean like farrah Fawcett, Bo Derek, Ann-Margaret, Faye Dunaway, Suzanne Somers, Cheryl ladd, Diane Keaton, Liv Ullman, Julie Christie, Cybil Shepard and Sissy Spacek? So you think my thesis is all wet? ---
**Author:** ![FrankJBN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@FrankJBN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrankJBN)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/18 "2013-02-25T21:25:13Z")
“So you think my thesis is all wet?” Not your thesis, your premise. I was surprised so many have apparently agreed and tried to explain why the "raven-haired " paradigm occurred, when to my recollection it simply was not so. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/19 "2013-02-25T23:32:31Z")
I am not ready to give up on it yet, and I’m still going to call it a thesis. :P. I still suspect that at the least, women who naturally had very dark hair and fair complexion were more likely to leave their hair unlightened then then they are now. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327/20 "2013-02-26T00:26:54Z")
> [@Kepler1571](#): > > …There are probably similar fads with leading men, I just don’t notice them for some reason. Body hair, specifically chest hair. Hairless chest are alot more common onscreen than they were 25-30 yrs ago. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-all-the-raven-haired-women-in-movies-forty-years-ago/651327.md?page=2)