# What's with John McCain's "chicken dance" arms? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 29, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702 "2008-06-29T22:13:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/1 "2008-06-29T22:13:19Z")
I’m not sure if this belongs in GQ, and I’m not sure if this has been discussed on the SDMB before. Given that, the mods should feel free to move or close this thread if they think it best. Okay… Am I the only one who has noticed how oddly John McCain stands, especially when he is holding a microphone? His elbows point out stiffly. He sort of resembles a classic football blocker or someone doing the chicken dance. Is this his natural posture, or is it the result of some injury or something, or is it some newly concocked politician gesture (like the famed “thumb-point”)? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/2 "2008-06-29T22:21:54Z")
I think it’s because he was beaten almost to death, numerous times, as a POW, and his arms were severely injured. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/3 "2008-06-29T22:22:15Z")
His arm was broken several times when he was in a Vietnamese POW camp, and I believe they did not heal correctly. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/4 "2008-06-29T22:22:28Z")
It’s a result of torture and intentionally lousy treatment of his original injuries by the North Vietnamese. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/5 "2008-06-29T22:24:33Z")
Due to the torture he endured at the hands of the North Vietnamese he is incapable of raising his arms above his shoulders. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/6 "2008-06-29T22:27:03Z")
More detail here (from his autobiography). [http://www.vanityfair.com](http://www.vanityfair.com)./politics/features/2007/02/mccain200702?currentPage=4 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/7 "2008-06-30T02:48:37Z")
I’m amazed more people don’t know this, frankly. On NPR I listened to an interview of a “young voter” a hesitant young woman who said McCain seemed old to her, and then remarked that he couldn’t raise his arms in the way described. He couldn’t do that when he was a lot younger either, but she didn’t know that. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/8 "2008-06-30T02:54:58Z")
[QUOTE=rowrrbazzle] More detail here (from his autobiography). [http://www.vanityfair.com](http://www.vanityfair.com)./politics/features/2007/02/mccain200702?currentPage=4 [/QUOTE] . . . [QUOTE=Vanity Fair] One of McCain’s aides tells me that two years ago, campaigning with McCain, George W. Bush asked him if the senator would like to work out with him. Told that McCain did not, could not, really “work out,” Bush replied, “What do you mean?” [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/9 "2008-06-30T02:59:33Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Due to the torture he endured… [/QUOTE] Or just possibly: > [@](#): > > McCain shattered his knee and broke both arms when he was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967. [McCain’s disability pension may renew questions about his fitness](http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/22/nation/na-pension22) -LA Times April 22, 2008. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/10 "2008-06-30T14:14:48Z")
I honor John McCain for his service to his country as a naval aviator, and I’m sure he was horribly mistreated by the North Vietnamese. But why should he be getting almost $60K a year tax-free for being disabled, and then say he’s completely physically capable of serving as President? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/11 "2008-06-30T14:23:18Z")
Military disability pay runs according to law, and John McCain is entitled to that money - he worked for the Navy for some years and retired with a disability status. That status affects the tax rate of the pension - and doesn’t prevent him or any other service member from seeking other income. I will remind you that we had a president who was confined to a wheelchair for his entire administration. He seemed up to the job physically, at the outset at least. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/12 "2008-06-30T14:28:25Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Military disability pay runs according to law, and John McCain is entitled to that money - he worked for the Navy for some years and retired with a disability status. That status affects the tax rate of the pension - and doesn’t prevent him or any other service member from seeking other income. I will remind you that we had a president who was confined to a wheelchair for his entire administration. He seemed up to the job physically, at the outset at least. [/QUOTE] In addition to FDR, JFK was in excruciating pain much of the time from back injuries sustained in WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/13 "2008-06-30T14:42:42Z")
Not only that - he had Addison’s disease. And while it is likely he would have made it through his term - especially after he ditched his Dr. Feelgood - his long-term health prospects were not good. My grandmother was born the same year as JFK. She’s a healthy 90 years old - still living at home. Had JFK not been killed in 1963, it isn’t at all likely he’d be doing as well as my grandma - he’d probably have been dead for a couple of decades at least. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/14 "2008-06-30T14:52:46Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] I honor John McCain for his service to his country as a naval aviator, and I’m sure he was horribly mistreated by the North Vietnamese. But why should he be getting almost $60K a year tax-free for being disabled, and then say he’s completely physically capable of serving as President? :dubious: [/QUOTE] Firstly, he’s entitled to that money by law. End of story. Secondly, the guiding principle behind the Americans with Disabilities Act is that “reasonable accomodations” should be made for people with disabilities. John McCain does need some accomodations due to his disabilites, but they’re hardly unreasonable, and wouldn’t prevent him from performing essential presidential duties. ( **Rowrbazzle** ’s link provides some idea of what these accomodations might be.) Personally, I am somewhat concerned about his fitness to be president due to his age and general state of health. I’m not at all concerned about his inability to lift his arms above his head. And add Bob Dole to the list of disabled presidents and presidential candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/15 "2008-06-30T15:55:40Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] I honor John McCain for his service to his country as a naval aviator, and I’m sure he was horribly mistreated by the North Vietnamese. But why should he be getting almost $60K a year tax-free for being disabled, and then say he’s completely physically capable of serving as President? :dubious: [/QUOTE] :dubious: What part of being the president requires any physical exertion beyond making speeches and holding a pen? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/16 "2008-06-30T16:23:23Z")
> [@Diomedes](#): > > What part of being the president requires any physical exertion beyond making speeches and holding a pen? Not that I agree with the notion that it’s McCain’s disability that makes him unfit for the presidency, but the job of President is a taxing and stressful one. Look at before and after photos of any president of the US. IMHO without exception they look aged beyond the normal aging one would expect for the time that had passed. Even Bush II, IMHO one of the least if not the least politically aware and involved presidents ever, has aged in excess of his years. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/17 "2008-06-30T17:08:52Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Not that I agree with the notion that it’s McCain’s disability that makes him unfit for the presidency, but the job of President is a taxing and stressful one. Look at before and after photos of any president of the US. IMHO without exception they look aged beyond the normal aging one would expect for the time that had passed. Even Bush II, IMHO one of the least if not the least politically aware and involved presidents ever, has aged in excess of his years. [/QUOTE] Possibly. But consider also, that a lot of people “age” rapidly in their 50’s and 60’s, which is also the age most U.S. Presidents have been. When I went back to Massachusetts to see my dad (who is now 66) after _not_ seeing him for 8 or so years, the difference was shocking. He got all pudgy and grey. (I’m doing that in my 40’s. Heh) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/18 "2008-06-30T19:55:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Possibly. > > But consider also, that a lot of people “age” rapidly in their 50’s and 60’s, which is also the age most U.S. Presidents have been. General state of health is hard to quantify. But even when you take the assassinations out of the picture, I think that the number of deaths in office is well above what you would expect for that age and socioeconomic demographic. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/19 "2008-06-30T19:58:57Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] General state of health is hard to quantify. But even when you take the assassinations out of the picture, I think that the number of deaths in office is well above what you would expect for that age and socioeconomic demographic. [/QUOTE] Really? With such a small sample size (43 Presidents), is it appropriate to make that conclusion? No snark intended. 🙂 I am sure the job is stressful. But I have no idea how much longer FDR (for example) would have lived had he not been President. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702/20 "2008-06-30T20:06:35Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] General state of health is hard to quantify. But even when you take the assassinations out of the picture, I think that the number of deaths in office is well above what you would expect for that age and socioeconomic demographic. [/QUOTE] Dunno. Let’s stipulate that what we would consider modern medicine began in the 1950s or so - and even with that, some procedures have become commonplace only very recently. In this space of time, how many presidents have died in office because of illness? Zero. Small sample, I know. We can broaden it by adding governors - the nearest comparable job. I really can only think of one governor who died in office due to illness - Lawton Chiles. I’m sure there may have been others - I can’t remember who they were, and it sure isn’t a common thing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-john-mccains-chicken-dance-arms/454702.md?page=2)