# What's with the entrenched anti-religion groupthink around here? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 22, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365 "2008-12-22T21:01:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/101 "2008-12-23T05:13:24Z")
I think if the religious nuts will quit making leading threads about some stupid slant, it would die to a whimper. The arguments are generally a product of a religious person trying to convince the atheists that he is correct . Here I got a brand new slant that proves there is god. What do you think? Will you become a catholic now? Fuck no. Been there ,done that. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/102 "2008-12-23T05:28:03Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > I was under the impression it was generally a default permit system. Such would tend to permit the “tough love” of torture, then, would it not? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/103 "2008-12-23T05:34:41Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > You’re like the horse with his fucking nose scraping the bottom of the trough, drowning in water and asking why no one will give him a fucking drink. You’re a non-thinking troll whose arguments consist entirely of insults and slogans. You’ve never given a cite in your whole miserable history. You counter evidence simply by denying that it has been offered. Your understanding of science and its purpose is so woefully weak that you emasculate it with your idiotic demands that it prove analytical facts. You’re a fucking dumbass, suffereing delusions of grandeur as you imagine yourself to be some kind of warrior against religion. You are impotent. Your brain has no balls. You’re stupid. You’re a punk. You’re a whore. You’re a one-man Gestapo. You have the intelligence and ethics of Fred fucking Phelps. You’re a little bitty man with a big fat mouth. You’re nothing. You’re sewage. You’re a shit stain on humanity. The fact that I’m commanded to love you is plenty of evidence that God exists. It’s wonderful to see that Jesus has returned for his birthday. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/104 "2008-12-23T05:56:25Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Catholic priests being hauled out of the basements where they hide so they can be forced to sign confessions, then are burned at the stake **with dynamite** hidden in the kindling; Perhaps gunpowder instead of dynamite? I’m pretty sure that no Catholic priests have been burned at the stake in Britain since 1866. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/105 "2008-12-23T06:18:11Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Such would tend to permit the “tough love” of torture, then, would it not? Nope. Jesus preached about turning the other cheek and judge not lest you be judged. ---
**Author:** ![Gleena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@Gleena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gleena)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/106 "2008-12-23T08:10:42Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Nope. Jesus preached about turning the other cheek and judge not lest you be judged. Among other things - why are you giving the cafeteria version of Christianity? Did you not see the cite you requested? Jesus preached a lot of things (presuming he actually existed) and only a small part were sunshine and roses, Sparky. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/107 "2008-12-23T09:07:28Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Perhaps gunpowder instead of dynamite? I’m pretty sure that no Catholic priests have been burned at the stake in Britain since 1866. Most likely gunpowder, yes. Some big boomy blasty thing that goes kablammo when it gets torched. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/108 "2008-12-23T10:51:26Z")
> [@What\_the\_deuce](#): > > Response to the **Der Trihs** post (#91): > > I’m not sure how to respond to your reasons for why the SDMB is pro-religion. I’ll let someone more qualified handle that one, but I don’t think it’s not an indicator of “pro-religion” so much as (from your perspective) “not sufficiently anti-religion”. I don’t think I can get that excited about the double standard because I just don’t view religion or lack of a religion as a big deal. > > If studies show that religion does not make people better, then I stand corrected. I should have just stuck to my original point of “Can’t we all just get along?”. I made a mistake in even bringing up the positive or negative attributes of religion, since it’s somewhat irrelevant to my arguments. > > If you think the word “persecution” is too strong, fine, but there is an effect of driving such people away, whatever noun you want to use for that. Unwelcomeingness? > > Yes, building bonfires out of people is horrible, but I don’t think that’s what people like **Jesse Leigh** do in their spare time… > > In summary, I hope that my posts can convince you to be more welcoming to religious people (though not agreeing with their ideas of course). Assuming you aren’t already friendly (and I haven’t bothered to search your past posts to see if this is the case), I hope that I can convince you to do so. On behalf of a fellow atheist (or agnostic or whatever I am), let’s try to make ourselves look good by showing the tolerance we want to receive from others. Expand on what you mean by “welcoming.” Am I supposed to pretend I agree with something I don’t agree with? Am I just supposed to sit quietly by, in a forum designed to debate ideas? And what do you mean by “tolerance?” No one’s stopping anyone from whatever it is they believe. Pointing out flaws and outright contradictions in that belief is not intolerant. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/109 "2008-12-23T13:44:04Z")
> [@](#): > > **TVeblen** said: > The vast majority of posters have not expressed the slightest problem if people make casual references to religion. That most definitely includes lunacies like getting upset at “gesundheit” or “God bless” for sneezes. I don’t get upset, I just don’t say it or respond to it. People think that makes me rude, but I think it makes me consistent. I don’t say anything regarding other bodily functions, so I treat sneezes the same! > [@](#): > > **even sven** said: > I think my problem is that I never had the “crisis of the faith” that many atheists had, so I just don’t feel threatened or defensive by religion. I never had a crisis of faith because I never believed. All the same, I still wonder how it is that in the 21st century in an industrialized nation with all we know of science, mathematics, physics, cosmology, geology and paleontology anyone could still actually believe a religion. I just don’t understand how it’s possible for a rational adult to believe in any sort of god. I personally cannot see why religion should be afforded any kind of automatic respect. I agree with Douglas Adams, as it were. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/110 "2008-12-23T13:49:05Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > That’s silly. I’m responding to a widely-made claim from entrenched cultural beliefs. I am not making my statement in a vacuum. The positive claim that “God exists” has been made millions and millions of times. Not once, ever, in any circumstance, has any substantiation been made. In absence of one single shred of evidence, I’m rejecting the hypothesis. God does not exist. Very well, then. The next time someone makes the claim that God exists, it will be in the non-vacuum of the SDMB where the positive statement that he does not has been made and no cite should be requested. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/111 "2008-12-23T14:02:16Z")
> [@Gleena](#): > > Among other things - why are you giving the cafeteria version of Christianity? Did you not see the cite you requested? > > Jesus preached a lot of things (presuming he actually existed) and only a small part were sunshine and roses, Sparky. Then you should have no problem giving me that cite. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/112 "2008-12-23T14:12:10Z")
> [@](#): > > **Lord Ashtar** said: > Very well, then. The next time someone makes the claim that God exists, it will be in the non-vacuum of the SDMB where the positive statement that he does not has been made and no cite should be requested. Except that’s not a positive claim, it’s the default position. Other default positions that do not require proof are: Unicorns do not exist. Zeus does not exist. Thor dos not exist. The Flying Spaghetti Monster does not exist. Vogons do not exist. Santa Claus does not exist. Regardless of where you are, the claim that something _does exist_ is the positive claim and the one that has to be proven by evidence. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/113 "2008-12-23T14:28:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And there’s a reason why some people, including me, consider Communism just another religion. It’s quite close to Christianity actually. So is democracy the way some people take it. It’s that “my way by right or might” that is the true evil in the world. It can be religion, government systems, race, sexual preference, which end of the egg to crack or whatever. That fervor to crush people who are different just for being different. The responsibility lays with each of us to say no to it. I admit some popular religions are from paragons of tolerance and virtue usually but some are. Aside from making you long for modern hats as cool as the guy on the oat meal box what have the Quakers ever done to you? How about the Amish? Have you ever been harassed by a Buddhist? Adventists in my experience are usually pretty cool with agnosticism. It’s up to each of us Atheist and Theist alike to coexist. They have no right to harass you for your skepticism, but you owe them the same courtesy for their faith. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/114 "2008-12-23T14:29:23Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Santa Claus does not exist. I do take umbrage with this position. I have seen him and spoken with him on occasion. I, for one, think he’s a very nice man and I refuse to listen to your pish-posh about his non-existence. Next, you’ll be telling me that The King is dead. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/115 "2008-12-23T22:11:13Z")
[QUOTE=The Tao’s Revenge] “christians” who torture Christian(s) [/quote] _are the luckiest Christians… in the worrlllld…_ ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/116 "2008-12-23T22:25:14Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And there’s a reason why some people, including me, consider Communism just another religion. It’s quite close to Christianity actually. So what you’re saying is, Communism isn’t really a political system, because it doesn’t meet your definition of a political system. Uh huh, and I’m sure you’ve got the kilt on and the porridge unsugared. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/117 "2008-12-23T22:32:56Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > So what you’re saying is, Communism isn’t really a political system, because it doesn’t meet your definition of a political system. I’m rarely sure what DT is saying, but in this particular case, comparing communism to organized religion isn’t really a stretch. It’s not that communism is religious, or religion is communist, but that they both describe a power structure based on tenuous reason and which can be both ruthless in purging what each defines as heresy, and rewarding to those who advance through ruthlessness. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/118 "2008-12-23T22:38:48Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Perhaps gunpowder instead of dynamite? I’m pretty sure that no Catholic priests have been burned at the stake in Britain since 1866. They were charbroiled for a lot less reasons than the things they did to altar boys in the 20th century. They quit too soon. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/119 "2008-12-23T22:39:55Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Now I can get on board with that argument. My objection was with the hyperbole of the rape comparison. Religion isn’t rape and I don’t think it’s a fair comparison. It’s too emotionally charged an issue. It’s practically Godwinizing it. I feel obliged to point out that the Old Testament includes explicit endorsements of the rape of captive women. Here’s a [cite](http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=KjvZech.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=14&division=div1): [QUOTE=The Book of Zechariah, chapter 14, versus 1-3] 1: Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2: For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3: Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. [/QUOTE] That is explicitly the Lord God of Hosts sanctioning rape. Slightly more ambiguous is [this](http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=KjvDeut.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=21&division=div1): [QUOTE=The Book of Deuteronomy, chapter 21, versus 10-14] 10: When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, 11: And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; 12: Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; 13: And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. 14: And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her. [/QUOTE] Why, that’s exactly the sort of deity I want to take my moral guidance from. Only in reverse. ---
**Author:** ![Gleena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@Gleena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gleena)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365/120 "2008-12-23T22:42:21Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Then you should have no problem giving me that cite. Post 94 mate, it’s a fast moving thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-entrenched-anti-religion-groupthink-around-here/478365.md?page=7)