# What's With The Guns? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2005, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298 "2005-02-28T14:59:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![finn007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/90db22/32.png) [@finn007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/finn007)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/541 "2005-04-14T00:06:49Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > Psst–a little fancy book larnin’ from one Paddy to another: when you’re quoting people, you need to close the open quote command with a tag at the end of the quote. Believe me, you need all the help with legibility you can get. And WTF is a croppy? We’re talking guns here! [/QUOTE] well sure isn’t grand that we have a linguistics,or syntactician expert to keep us all in order…watch your grammar and being a PADDY AND LINGUIST you don’t know what a CROPPY is…suggest you look it up perhaps with legibilty i do need assistance…but sure there is always you Now If I throw a stick, will you leave? ---
**Author:** ![finn007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/90db22/32.png) [@finn007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/finn007)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/542 "2005-04-14T00:33:36Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] Nice complete strawman. FTR, I guarantee that I know more about American history, warts and all, than you do. Nowhere have I said that America is never wrong, but if you want to put a Marxist spin on things,/quote] oh i would say you do know more of American history and the Cromwellian warts and all Poor old Marx…if in doubt bring him out…the red under the bed and maybe Joe McCarthy that was indeed a period of warts and all…You do so much sound like a politican.Whatever you say say nothing. It’s really quite amusing you answered most of the questions you asked…so how can ignorance be challanged…which i thought was the motto of this board… Your other remaks is still all the typical AMERICAN SHIBBOLETHS \*However I like you. You remind me of myself when I was young and stupid. \* ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/543 "2005-04-14T00:43:48Z")
It’s a damn shame that I’m no longer young, but you’re still stupid. ---
**Author:** ![finn007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/90db22/32.png) [@finn007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/finn007)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/544 "2005-04-14T01:06:01Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > It’s a damn shame that I’m no longer young, but you’re still stupid. damn shame your wit is pathetic… It would appear you started out with nothing and still have most of it left. Nemo me impune lacessit. ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/545 "2005-04-14T01:08:35Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > It’s a damn shame that I’m no longer young, but you’re still stupid. I agree, he’s not the kind of guy you’d like to have on your side on this board, not the way he behaves right now. It’s sad, because there’s potentially a lot to learn from someone who’s lived through the unrest up-close and personal, but I guess it’s also hard not to become twisted from it. However, I also note that there are enough people responding to him from the other side that have little trouble stooping to his level. ---
**Author:** ![finn007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/90db22/32.png) [@finn007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/finn007)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/546 "2005-04-14T01:11:48Z")
**enipla** I thank you for addressing me by name…this a quick reply as it’s almost 2-30 am,however i will certainly reply in full to morrow slan ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/547 "2005-04-14T01:14:01Z")
OK, looked it up (a rebel, a term dating from 1798). Sorry for not being up to date on the slang of that interminable conflict over there. ---
**Author:** ![finn007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/90db22/32.png) [@finn007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/finn007)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/548 "2005-04-14T01:46:38Z")
> [@Arwin](#): > > I agree, he’s not the kind of guy you’d like to have on your side on this board, not the way he behaves right now. It’s sad, because there’s potentially a lot to learn from someone who’s lived through the unrest up-close and personal, but I guess it’s also hard not to become twisted from it. > > However, I also note that there are enough people responding to him from the other side that have little trouble stooping to his level. Arwin you have a way with words…unfortunately the wrong way…you may not like me…i don’t mind,i have endured a lot worse,so as a karl jung you believe i’m twisted…well perhaps as ROBBIE BURNS SAID oh the gift that god as geeus.to see ourselves as others seeus you might be right But i don’t think so…_for then, in my experience this world is totally twisted, and by the good guys_ It was easier when they wore white hats…but they now skirt on the fringe of truth with a WMD in one hand and a bible in the other,I believe your looking at the worst evil on earth…and the world especially AMERICA is full of them But thank GOD a lot of AMERICANS still believe in truth,freedom,and the rights of man…the rest have FORGOTTEN JEFFERSON,MADISON AND OF COURSE PAINE I like the “not the way he behaves now” Man have you not the balls to say what you truly feel without being a patronising eejit. But one redeeming feature you do have, you saw the true selves come out…but then made another bollix by saying" stooping to his level " can you not see that is their level, ---
**Author:** ![finn007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/90db22/32.png) [@finn007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/finn007)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/549 "2005-04-14T01:50:29Z")
see you are learning and yet you don’t give me credit for it…that is a shame ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/550 "2005-04-14T01:51:55Z")
> [@finn007](#): > > sorry my error…but Americans are politely called obese…were i prefer fat bastards…that i calculated wrongly…so sorry if that vexed you.But sure i know you will forgive me…GOD bless you. :smack: stupid paddy I agree. Stupid paddy. It’s OK though, I figure you were drunk. ---
**Author:** ![finn007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/90db22/32.png) [@finn007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/finn007)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/551 "2005-04-14T02:27:53Z")
[QUOTE=SteveG1] > [@finn007](#): > > So what do youre problems have to do with anything in this thread, except as a way to vent? One of the reasons why we have always had a “gun culture” here, is precisely to oppose (kill the shit out of) anyone who might try to come here and take over. Maybe if Ireland had been more like us brutish, vicious, baby eating, ignorant, redneck Yanks, you might have whatever freedom you think you want. Or at least, it woulnd’t have been such a “walk in the park” for whoever the heck it is that you’re being oppressed by. But then, we Yanks did it openly. We didn’t wear masks or disguises when we kicked out the Brits (twice - 1776 and 1812), and we didn’t bomb our own friends and neighbors to do it. My problems are your problems. but i never realised that your “gun culture” stopped America from being invaded…who were the enemy?..and you were terrorist in 1776 and 1812 …remarkable that so many of your leaders then, were IRISH of the radical presbyterian republican tradition…and given the geographical and size of your country,if we had had half of that advantage the BRITISH WOULD have been gone in the 17th century…you ought to study world history a little bit more…you do know there is a world outside of AMERICA And pardon you, but you did commit atrocities in your war of independence, and in fact did wear masks…oh yes i’m afraid you need further study on your own history…it wasn’t all feckin holywood crap. Bomb own friends and neighbours really everytime you open that mouth your foot goes in to it…foot and mouth disease…you were not aware of a little thing called a civil war when you butchered one and other… You know there is little else to say to you except, I’ll try being nicer if you’ll try being smarter. which i know is going to be pretty difficult for you,still try you never know. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/552 "2005-04-14T02:50:40Z")
> [@finn007](#): > > You know there is little else to say to you except, I’ll try being nicer if you’ll try being smarter. I think we’d all be grateful if you just tried learning how to construct a proper sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/553 "2005-04-14T03:03:43Z")
Who exactly are you talking to when you say “you”? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/554 "2005-04-14T03:20:49Z")
> [@Arwin](#): > > I agree, he’s not the kind of guy you’d like to have on your side on this board, not the way he behaves right now. It’s sad, because there’s potentially a lot to learn from someone who’s lived through the unrest up-close and personal, but I guess it’s also hard not to become twisted from it. > > However, I also note that there are enough people responding to him from the other side that have little trouble stooping to his level. When a school yard bully starts throwing shit at you, sometimes it gets thrown back. That’s what I see. Finn initiated a school yard pushing match in an otherwise civil discussion. Yes, you said it. It’s sad. ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/555 "2005-04-14T03:22:48Z")
Man! This thread needs a silver bullet, or stake through the heart, or something. > [@UncleBeer](#): > > Just like any other properly designed and used mechanical contrivance, guns are not in and of themselves dangerous. Sure, there are dangerous uses—or rather **misuses** for these implements, but that requires deliberate human interaction with the gun. Guns are not dangerous in exactly the same fashion your car parked in your garage is not dangerous. Someone has to misuse the thing before danger can ensue. This is a little confusing. A car in your garage is designed to get into and drive. A gun is designed to aim at a person or animal and kill them. In their military application, guns are used to kill people. How can such a device be classed as “not dangerous”? A q-tip is “not dangerous”. Guns? Not so much. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/556 "2005-04-14T04:27:07Z")
The thing is, I want to know Rebekkah’s answer to the question, darn it! ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/557 "2005-04-14T04:33:25Z")
Well, to be completely literal, a gun is not dangerous. A gun with ammunition in it is dangerous. The Enfield rifle and the flintlock pistol sitting on the floor under my bed are at this moment no more dangerous than the lacrosse sticks in my coat closet, but if I were to go to the store and buy cartridges for one and powder for the other they’d become dangerous… although we do have a bayonet on the enfield. ---
**Author:** ![finn007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/90db22/32.png) [@finn007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/finn007)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/558 "2005-04-14T10:32:51Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > I think we’d all be grateful if you just tried learning how to construct a proper sentence. So sorry…another linguist…this board is full of them as my fellow country man said The upper classes contradict others,the wise contradict themselves…and since i dont consider ENGLISH as my primary language…you will have to forgive my lapses ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/559 "2005-04-14T10:54:00Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > I don’t. I think the legal purchase of guns should be allowed because there is _no good reason not to_, which is what the government would need in order to disallow it. Well, obviously we disagree there. I’ve given plenty of cites, you’ve come up with none. All you’ve got is one personal experience in which a gun may or may not have saved you from further harm (regardless of whether a baseball bat, large kitchen knife or cell phone wouldn’t have been just as effective). > [@](#): > > I’ve had a crime happen to me, and I have no fear at all. By goodness, **catsix** , you are comparing your burglary incident during which nothing happend to you, your kin or your stuff at all, to **GusNSpot** ’s many violent incidents including the death of his sister? > [@](#): > > It doesn’t matter to me if I _need_ a gun. I will always have them because I want to have them. I get enjoyment from them. That they can be used for self defense is just another benefit. It’s clear to me by now that you only care about you and no-one else, since you’re not willing to even consider the possibility that the overal benefit of guns might be negative. I’m just glad I’m not your neighbour. ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/560 "2005-04-14T11:23:55Z")
> [@finn007](#): > > Arwin > you have a way with words…unfortunately the wrong way…you may not like me…i don’t mind,i have endured a lot worse,so as a karl jung you believe i’m twisted…well perhaps as ROBBIE BURNS SAID oh the gift that god as geeus.to see ourselves as others seeus you might be right All I feel is that your approach does more evil than good. You see, in the U.S. things don’t change much nor quickly in terms of individual Americans, but the different positions on various subjects is fairly balanced out, so that small shifts of opinion can have great results. It is my opinion that by respectfully appealing to common sense and listening to opposing views on important issues, you have a far greater chance of helping both the other and yourself. You might learn something, they might learn something, and as long as the common goal is to determine what’s right based on solid arguments preferably based on methodically collected data (science), noone will lose the argument because you are both merely looking for the best answer to a problem. A similar thing could have happened in Ireland long ago, if you ask me, if historical wounds and ancient hatred hadn’t created a culture of violence and mistrust. > [@](#): > > But thank GOD a lot of AMERICANS still believe in truth,freedom,and the rights of man…the rest have FORGOTTEN JEFFERSON,MADISON AND OF COURSE PAINE > [@](#): > > I like the “not the way he behaves now” Man have you not the balls to say what you truly feel without being a patronising eejit. It’s just a different approach. Balls have nothing to do with it, certainly not for a small guy like me from such a small country - I could scream and yell and call names and what not all I like, but what would that, other than make me look like a fool. I come from a country that has a good record of fairly dealing with social issues and still being successful, and I want to share some of that spirit with the rest of the world, hoping they find some of it to their benefit. > [@](#): > > But one redeeming feature you do have, you saw the true selves come out…but then made another bollix by saying" stooping to his level " can you not see that is their level, As I think it should be, I am always less tolerant of misbehavior by those who appear to fight on my side in a debate, than vice versa. If people act out childishly because they want something but they don’t know why and don’t really have any good reasons to justify their wants, I understand and am perfectly comfortable with considering myself to be above that and set a good example by not responding in a same manner. When I take a position on an important subject, I always try to look at the issue from all sides, and always try to make an objective decision based on evidence, as a judge ruling the case before him or a science interpreting the data. I’m not saying I’m always successful, either in correctly interpreting the data or in remaining objective, but I do try. But if someone is on a side of the debate where he can come up with good arguments, but instead resorts to shouting and name calling, then this person not only is impolite, but he blemishing honest truth finding with ill words. His banter gives those who do not care about the truth to engage in a matter of arguing a case that does not require careful thought or evidence. Like the soldiers in Abu Ghraib or the practices of Halliburton, they make a potentially good cause look evil and suspect, and make it easier for the opponents of such a war to dismiss the war, easier for doubters who might think the Americans are truly doing an unselfish thing to change their mind (I happen to believe that the Americans might actually be helping some people there, but I’m not sure the cost of the _damage to themselves_ is worth it). Remember, you are on an internet forum, where your only weapons and ammunition, your only presentation and means of communication, are words. Use them wisely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298.md?page=29)