# What's With The Guns? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2005, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298 "2005-02-28T14:59:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/41 "2005-02-28T18:14:08Z")
> [@Rebekkah](#): > > That being said, people hunt for “fun”. This I don’t get. Luckily, in a free nation and a civil society people are allowed to do pretty much whatever they wish as long as they don’t harm other people. This provision, by the way, stands whether or not you “get” what they enjoy. Don’t understand why people play video games? Ah well. Don’t understand why people fish? Ah well. Don’t understand why people go on fad diets? Ah well. Don’t understand why people choose SUV’s over smaller cars? Ah well. Don’t understand why people post on the 'net? Ah well. Don’t understand why people enjoy shooting guns? Ah well. That’s the glorious thing about freedom, it really is totally free as long as you don’t limit someone else’s rights. By the way, I’d advise you to get your hands on a decent shotgun and try shooting a few clay pigeons. Because, well, it’s a whole lot of **fun**. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/42 "2005-02-28T18:16:51Z")
They’re compensating for their very, very small penis. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/43 "2005-02-28T18:22:39Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > They’re compensating for their very, very small penis. ~grins~ Would you have said that to Annie Oakley? ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/44 "2005-02-28T18:25:43Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > They’re compensating for their very, very small penis. Ever try hitting a clay pigeon with ANY penis?? Fuckin’ brutal I tell ya. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/45 "2005-02-28T18:30:03Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > ~grins~ > Would you have said that to Annie Oakley? Maybe she had small tits. ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/46 "2005-02-28T18:37:16Z")
I own a 12-gauge shotgun and a pump-action .22 rifle. I’ve never used them for home defense or protection. I haven’t hunted in several years. I do, however, go to the range 2-3 times a month to shoot skeet (and occasionally indulge in the rifle range) with several buds who share the same interest. We’re interested in getting as good as we can and enjoy the challenge of shooting at multiple airborne targets. If I weren’t interested in this sport, I probably wouldn’t own the shotgun. > [@](#): > > What’s the fascination? For me, it’s the competition. I like being able to outshoot most of my friends. It’s the challenge of the sport, coupled with the camaraderie of my friends who share my enthusiasm. There’s also the underlying motivation of an independent streak I have in me. I like the idea of knowing that the skills I’m developing could be used to hunt game one day, if I ever decide to do that. I’m one of those people that believes in maintaining ties to useful skills such that, if society were one day unable to provide, I wouldn’t be completely helpless and dependent on others. Not that I’m a survivalist or anything, but I don’t like being 100% dependent on modern technology and such. Of course, my buds and I crack jokes about having enough ammo around for when the radioactive zombies show up, but that’s mostly poking fun at ourselves… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/47 "2005-02-28T18:37:29Z")
> [@Duke of Rat](#): > > Ever try hitting a clay pigeon with ANY penis?? Fuckin’ brutal I tell ya. Now **that** is one contest I’d never like to see. “On your mark, get set, get ready to shoot!” Ewwwwwwwwwwww! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/48 "2005-02-28T18:48:02Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Maybe she had small tits. I like small tits. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/49 "2005-02-28T18:50:40Z")
I wonder why this idea that one has to have a gun in case society goes defunct, seems to be a uniquely American one. ---
**Author:** ![Jillyvn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Jillyvn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jillyvn)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/50 "2005-02-28T18:51:17Z")
> [@Roland Orzabal](#): > > It’s bad form to ask people to justify things they like just because you don’t agree. If you have an argument as to why they should _not_ like them (and there’s no shortage of arguments to that effect, especially regarding guns), then present it, and a worthwhile discussion can ensue. If you simply don’t like guns, then even the most well-reasoned and eloquent response in this thread isn’t going to convince you otherwise, because at the end of the day, the issue remains subjective…and every answer you get will, in the essence of its meaning, be nothing more than an exponentially-expanded variant of “because I do”. I’m afraid I must respectfully disagree. Wait, this is the pit… what a dumb ass response. Did you even read my posts, Roland? I’m trying to understand the draw. I’m not saying I’m asking you to convince me to go buy a fucking gun. I’m just CURIOUS. How is that wrong? It’s not a matter of simply not liking guns. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/51 "2005-02-28T18:52:15Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > I like small tits. I like _any_ tits. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/52 "2005-02-28T18:54:04Z")
> [@Rebekkah](#): > > I’m just CURIOUS. Maybe IMHO would’ve been a better forum then? Perhaps you’d like to have this moved there? I mean, if you didn’t want debate and discussion and a bit of flaming, why put it in the PIt? ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/53 "2005-02-28T18:54:11Z")
Many sports are weapon based, does the OP not see anything worthwhile in Archery, Fencing, Javelin, Discus, Judo etc. As **Liberal** said the utility of a gun as defence against illegal government is waining. And in self defense it may not be as appropriate in some situations as a good stick or knife. But still a gun makes for a fun and accessable piece of sports equipment. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/54 "2005-02-28T18:59:52Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Um…I am pretty anti-gun only because the level of responsibility to take care of a gun is sorely absent in many, many people. Or perhaps I should say, I’m not anti-gun, but pro-education, pro- at least some laws restricting the sale & use, and and pro- appropriate safety measures taken. Simple ones. For example, if you buy a gun, you should be \*required \* to take a course on how to use the damn thing. And statistics should be shown to you on how many kids have played with their father’s guns and died so you at least lock it up or keep it away from the kids. > > However, I will never stand up against gun rights. I’ll never come into a pro-gun thread and say anything. Why? Because I don’t see that there’s anything inherently wrong with owning a gun, _per se_. I might even buy one some day, probably a scattergun. Not to hunt, not to do anything but skeetshoot. > > Why? Well, it’s fun. It never ever hurts to know how to use one. And Og forbid, the day may come when I have to use one. Why are you so anti-gun? If you don’t like them, don’t have one. If you have a problem with the way guns are bought/sold/used, lobby. Write letters. Even in Canada you can write letters. > > Talking on a message board won’t get you anywhere. Pretty much what she said. Basically, here’s my feelings on guns: I don’t have a problem with them, as long as people are responsible. It’s not the guns that are the problem-it’s the fact that there are a lot of stupid people out there. There are people that I wouldn’t trust to use a stapler, let alone a deadly weapon. Remember when Homer Simpson got a gun? Don’t be like that. I think people should have to be trained to use it, be responsible for storing it and carrying it safely, and keeping it out of the hands of small children and the idiots. If you’re the kind of guy who whips out his gun at every opportunity, twirling it around your finger fully loaded with the safety off, then I think you shouldn’t be allowed to have a gun. If you like to use your gun to turn off your tv, or ring in the new year-you should not be allowed to have a gun. In fact, dumbasses like this should be restricted to the kind of plastic safety scissors they pass out in kindergarten-and only then under heavy supervision. I also dislike the attitudes some people have (not necessarily anyone here) that everyone needs to have a gun. Someone insists, “Well, why don’t you want a gun? Are you some kind of pussy? What if you get robbed, you coward!” Fuck that-I don’t want a gun, I don’t feel comfortable around them, I don’t feel I need one, so I don’t.\* Don’t bother me about NOT being a gun owner. Because then you’re no better than people who want to ban everything down to plastic water pistols. And don’t jump all over **Rebekkah**. Aren’t we supposed to be here to fight ignorance? Well, she’s trying to fight her own in that she truly didn’t understand why people like guns, because she was never exposed to that. I don’t think she was being self-righteous-it was just something that she was not familiar with. Jesus, stop being so self-defensive. I think that’s a problem with gun discussions-either side asks an innocent question, and the other side jumps all over them for it. So, in short-guns are fine as long as people are responsible with them. \*Although I have to admit, the historian in me thinks the old timey-guns-like the ones with the long skinny barrels that they used prior to WWII, look pretty damn cool. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/55 "2005-02-28T19:01:33Z")
> [@Rebekkah](#): > > I’m afraid I must respectfully disagree. Wait, this is the pit… what a dumb ass response. > > Did you even read my posts, Roland? I’m trying to understand the draw. I’m not saying I’m asking you to convince me to go buy a fucking gun. I’m just CURIOUS. How is that wrong? It’s not a matter of simply not liking guns. Except you already said that one of the main reasons-“because it’s fun”-is, for some reason, “a rather juvenile response”. You’ve already made up your mind, aparently, why should we waste time trying to convince you that what we enjoy is as worthwile as whatever you enjoy? It just is, to us, and that’s a completely valid reason on it’s own. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/56 "2005-02-28T19:01:39Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > I wonder why this idea that one has to have a gun in case society goes defunct, seems to be a uniquely American one. I think it comes from the early-1980s, when there was a very real threat of a nuclear war. There have always been Doomsday Cults, and in the '80s it was the Survivalists. I don’t see a total collapse of society coming. Maybe if we’re hit with a very large meteorite (as in _Lucifer’s Hammer_) but it would have to be a world-wide thing. There are a lot of people in the U.S. who fear the government. They feel that the government wants to ‘steal their liberty’ and tax them into poverty. They think that ‘comes the day’, they’ll be out there fighting. It ain’t gonna happen. But many people in government want to take away people’s guns, and it’s been shown that guns are not as big a threat to an orderly society as some people make out. In this case, the government _is_ trying to infringe on people’s ‘pursuit of happiness’ for no good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Jillyvn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Jillyvn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jillyvn)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/57 "2005-02-28T19:02:43Z")
> [@Dancer\_Flight](#): > > And Rebekah, if you are in the Toronto area, drop me a line and I’ll be more than happy to take you down to the range to show you what we’re about. You never know, you may find you enjoy it. You may find you don’t. I shoot at the university range and we have many people who are interested or curious stop by and try shooting. In many cases they may find they don’t personally enjoy shooting but they do come away with a respect for those who do and generally little fear of guns or shooters. I was thinking about my OP over lunch, and I can see how gun target practice could be challenging and even fun. I came to the conclusion that if this is the primary reason for gun ownership, I can’t really fault it. I tried archery once, although admittedly not the same, and I really did enjoy the challenge. Alas, I am not in Toronto, but your suggestion might be a good one. Perhaps giving it a try would expand my understanding. > [@Duke of Rat](#): > > enjoy target shooting. I kill nothing more than a piece of paper, but it gives a measure of my ability to fulfill a primal desire to hit a target at a distance. If I am accurate, I get a good score, much like golf. But I use an “evil gun” to test my skill. This is more in the same vein of the above quoted post… I think perhaps there needs to be a separation of gun for “sport” (for lack of a better word) and guns for self-defense? I’m comfortable with the concept of someone owning a gun because they enjoy target shooting, but I can’t get on board the “from my cold, dead hands” I hear from the NRA… > [@Catsix](#): > > How about this one: I don’t have any need to justify my ownership of firearms any more than you need to justify your ownership of a computer. I seem to have gotten on some nerves with my OP, and I guess my intent isn’t explicit enough. I’m not asking for you to justify to me why you should get to own a gun. Much like the other posters, I’m asking for (if you want to) people who enjoy guns to give me a little walk through your mind as to why you own a gun. I’m curious, not some anti-gun freak who demands you melt the weapons down and toss them out. > [@THespos](#): > > For me, it’s the competition. I like being able to outshoot most of my friends. It’s the challenge of the sport, coupled with the camaraderie of my friends who share my enthusiasm. > > There’s also the underlying motivation of an independent streak I have in me. I like the idea of knowing that the skills I’m developing could be used to hunt game one day, if I ever decide to do that. I’m one of those people that believes in maintaining ties to useful skills such that, if society were one day unable to provide, I wouldn’t be completely helpless and dependent on others. Not that I’m a survivalist or anything, but I don’t like being 100% dependent on modern technology and such. I’ll admit, I’m terrified at the mere idea of holding a gun, let alone shooting one, and I wonder how much of that is conditioned fear? For example, if guns were viewed as primarly instruments of sport - target shooting - would I be so scared to pick one up? This raises the question of gun education I suppose. But, thank you for your thoughts, I’m really getting some interesting perspective here that I hadn’t even thought of. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/58 "2005-02-28T19:09:49Z")
Why is sport ‘valid’ but self defense is not? It would seem that if we abandon the standards of personal liberty (which I don’t think we should do) then utility and pragmatism become arbiters, and in that situation, why should we deny people the ability to protect their lives and those of their family? ---
**Author:** ![Jillyvn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Jillyvn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jillyvn)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/59 "2005-02-28T19:12:47Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Except you already said that one of the main reasons-“because it’s fun”-is, for some reason, “a rather juvenile response”. You’ve already made up your mind, aparently, why should we waste time trying to convince you that what we enjoy is as worthwile as whatever you enjoy? It just is, to us, and that’s a completely valid reason on it’s own. To be more specific, I was responding to “because their fun and they are legal” - which I initially took as a bit of a brush off to my op and sort of childish to boot. I haven’t made up my mind about anything, Weirdave… I’m going to clarify this a bit further before the thread completely derails. If someone asked me whether I agreed with casual gun ownership, my answer would be no. I was watching a movie last night, and there was some gun practice, and everyone seemed to be having a blast (fictional, I know!), and it made me think of the pro-gun threads on the board recently. My mind then ran like this: “Why do pro-gun people make me so uncomfortable? Maybe it is because I don’t understand the lure of guns? Maybe there is something I haven’t considered?” And, I though, I’ll post it on SDMB in the pit, in case it gets nasty. Turns out there were things I hadn’t considered, namely the draw of competition shooting, which is something I hadn’t even thought of! Again, I’m not asking you to tell me why I should own a gun, but why you do… and you don’t have to, if you don’t want to. No pressure. ---
**Author:** ![Jillyvn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Jillyvn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jillyvn)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298/60 "2005-02-28T19:17:30Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Why is sport ‘valid’ but self defense is not? > It would seem that if we abandon the standards of personal liberty (which I don’t think we should do) then utility and pragmatism become arbiters, and in that situation, why should we deny people the ability to protect their lives and those of their family? This is an interesting question. I get all squeamish when I think about my neighbors keeping guns for self defense, and here’s why: 1. I think guns should be kept secured. This being said, I fail to see how keeping your gun under lock and key will serve you in the event of an emergency? If someone bursts into your home to assualt you, are you going to ask him politely to wait while you unlock your gun? 2. I can’t imagine pulling a gun on a predator will turn out well. If he has a gun, he might shoot you… if he doesn’t, are you going to shoot him if he keeps coming at you? It just seems like a recipe for disaster. I’d rather keep all my doors locked. Naive, probably. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-guns/292298.md?page=4)