# What's with the hatred some have for the US Postal Service? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391 "2012-08-13T17:48:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/21 "2012-08-13T19:44:14Z")
Conservatives want to kill it so there is one less example of thing the public sector does well, but given that, I think there may be a case to use the internet to do things that are now done on-line. I’d like to look at providing every home in America high-speed, reliable internet along with a standard printer that can be serviced by USPS employees. Give me an option to refuse mass “mailings” as well and I’d be a happy camper. We can certainly work out a scheme for certified mail and other services that are provided by the USPS. Maybe some small, rural communities would be hurt by jacked up prices for delivery of physical items, but fuck 'em. They vote solidly Republican anyway and can live with the consequences of their choices for a change. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/22 "2012-08-13T19:49:04Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Then just privatize it and have it run as a business. If it’s so profitable, that shouldn’t be a problem, right? [QUOTE=ladyfoxfyre] Although it is owned entirely by the United States Government, the USPS functions as if it were a private corporation. [/QUOTE] Is that a yes? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/23 "2012-08-13T19:50:17Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > And if FedEx/UPS do not serve the address I want to send to because it is too rural or in a country they do not go to??? I’ve never had this problem once in my life. Have you? What was the zip code? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/24 "2012-08-13T19:52:36Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > Conservatives want to kill it so there is one less example of thing the public sector does well, but given that, I think there may be a case to use the internet to do things that are now done on-line. I’d like to look at providing every home in America high-speed, reliable internet along with a standard printer that can be serviced by USPS employees. Is this a parody? You want the government to get into the printer business? You want USPS employees going to people’s houses to fix their broken printers? Good luck with that. You know you can already buy a printer at Best Buy or anywhere else for around $100, right? What would be the value of the government getting into this business? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/25 "2012-08-13T19:52:38Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It’s reasonable to be pissed of at the excesses of public sector unions. They just had a story this morning on the news about a local cop who beat his wife. He’s been home, not working for a year. He’s still gotten paid his $130,000 salary during this time to surf the couch. So you’re saying we should privatize the police department? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/26 "2012-08-13T19:55:26Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Tax forms come in the mail. But they don’t need to. > [@](#): > > Tax forms go _out_ in the mail. Who still sends their taxes in the mail? It’s all online now. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/27 "2012-08-13T19:57:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So you’re saying we should privatize the police department? No, I didn’t say that. Respond to my actual posts without mischaracterizing them. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/28 "2012-08-13T19:59:05Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > But they don’t need to. > > Who still sends their taxes in the mail? It’s all online now. Not everyone has a computer or access to the internet. I know, I know, those pesky poor people again. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/29 "2012-08-13T20:00:29Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Is that a yes? If not, why not? Are you having trouble following? You want it run as a business. It is. It is controlled by the government because of > [@](#): > > Article I, Section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution, known as the Postal Clause or the Postal Power, empowers Congress “To establish Post Offices and post Roads”. So, it is overseen by the government, but it pays for itself, aside from the self-destruct bomb that the conservatives put in, requiring the retirement funding for almost a century. Let me say it again, it pays for itself. It is marvelously efficient. What exactly are you pissed about? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/30 "2012-08-13T20:02:59Z")
Oh, that UPS that can do no wrong. Last year I ordered a package that I was promised to arrive on a particular Saturday. I saw online that it had arrived at the local UPS so I went to pick it up- turns out that they didn’t feel like delivering to my address that day so they took it to USPS for them to make the final delivery. What would UPS do without the USPS to deliver to addresses that they don’t feel like serving? And what would the cost be to pick up a letter at my house and deliver it across the country in two days? Dare I say more than 45 cents? But how can that be? With the magical wonderful efficiency of the private sector, they can’t beat government workers? The only answer MUST be to shut down the government service! ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/31 "2012-08-13T20:04:39Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > No, I didn’t say that. Respond to my actual posts without mischaracterizing them. If that’s not what you were saying, then how does your cop story have anything to do with the USPS? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/32 "2012-08-13T20:06:28Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > And if FedEx/UPS do not serve the address I want to send to because it is too rural or in a country they do not go to??? Pity I don’t retain the details of every article I read. I can only say rural Georgia, according to an article about how, if you’re a company that needs to have things delivered, FedEx will take all your shipments and not tell you which ones will be flown to Atlanta and then shipped via the US Postal Service. Because it’s cheaper to send it USPS than to make a truck run for an unprofitable number of packages. All you can do when your customers complain that their delivery is late is trace it and blame it on FedEx. And it wasn’t just a few small towns, it was something like anything more than X miles from (list of profitable cities). ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/33 "2012-08-13T20:07:58Z")
Given the success of UPS, FedEx, et. al. I would think at this point that the USPS could be privatized or dropped. I’m not a USPS hater, though, and I think they generally do an amazing job. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/34 "2012-08-13T20:10:01Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Horseshit. UPS and FedEx don’t have anywhere near universal service. And, indeed, the Postal Service subsidizes UPS and FedEx by offering below-market prices for last-mile delivery. And one of the reasons that a basic service like postal service should be regulated by the government is so that it can set standards, such as not being able to refuse to deliver to certain areas, like UPS and FedEx can do. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/35 "2012-08-13T20:10:32Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Are you having trouble following? No. I’m in disagreement. That’s different than not understanding. > [@](#): > > You want it run as a business. It is. It’s run “as if it were” a business, per the cite. I’m saying if that’s true, why not spin it off and make it private? Regarding the constitutionality: I agree, the Post Office is constitutional. That doesn’t mean that it must be run by the government and cannot also be done by the private sector. An activity being constitutional doesn’t make it reserved as a government function alone. Do you have another argument? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/36 "2012-08-13T20:12:50Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Conservative, anti-post office poster checking in. > > The post office is outdated and should be abolished. We didn’t continue using the pony express once we completed the telegraph lines. **The Pony Express was a private company**. It failed because the company did not get the USPS contract, the Civil War diverted attention, the riders kept dying and the telegraph played a role in its demise. > [@](#): > > So why do we continue to have several post offices in every town after the internet has been developed? Not everyone has Internet access. > [@](#): > > Everything that the post office does could be better done via another method. > > Need to pay a bill? > Do it online. Not everyone has Internet access. > [@](#): > > Need to ship a package or important letter overnight? > Use FedEx/UPS. Overnight delivery is often too expensive. > [@](#): > > Need to send birthday party invitations? > Do it via Facebook. Not everyone has Internet access. Most people do not use Facebook. Do you trust Facebook with anything anyway? > [@](#): > > The lavish and hideously expensive pay and benefits to the public sector union workers just makes the whole thing more of a waste. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/37 "2012-08-13T20:13:16Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > If that’s not what you were saying, then how does your cop story have anything to do with the USPS? It’s just another example on the side tangent of out of control public sector unions. I already stated, if unions were the only problem with the PO, we could just give them the Wisconsin treatment and cut them back. But that’s not the core issue. My solution to the cop problem I described would be to eliminate unions from the police, along with all other public sector unions while we’re at it. That would eliminate a lot of these excesses. Of course privatizing the police would be a bad idea and you know I wasn’t suggesting it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/38 "2012-08-13T20:14:31Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I already stated, if unions were the only problem with the PO, we could just give them the Wisconsin treatment and cut them back. But that’s not the core issue. It seems to me you haven’t offered _any_ actual problem with the Postal Service. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/39 "2012-08-13T20:19:37Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > No. I’m in disagreement. That’s different than not understanding. I guess I would like to know your rationale for not thinking it is done well. I’m assuming it’s rational, and not ideological. > [@](#): > > It’s run “as if it were” a business, per the cite. I’m saying if that’s true, why not spin it off and make it private? But it is all but private. The only thing it doesn’t do is try to make a profit. Putting private individuals in charge would make it not controlled by the government. > [@](#): > > Regarding the constitutionality: I agree, the Post Office is constitutional. That doesn’t mean that it must be run by the government and cannot also be done by the private sector. An activity being constitutional doesn’t make it reserved as a government function alone. > > Do you have another argument? Right now it is run as a private organization controlled by the government. You want it to be run by an actual private organization not controlled by the government? What benefit would that have? Aside from letting the private org. close down access to small towns and raise prices? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/40 "2012-08-13T20:19:48Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Is this a parody? > > You want the government to get into the printer business? You want USPS employees going to people’s houses to fix their broken printers? > > Good luck with that. You know you can already buy a printer at Best Buy or anywhere else for around $100, right? What would be the value of the government getting into this business? Ever been around an old person and a computer? A dedicated device could print out mail and save hundreds of millions of dollars a year. This is not “getting in to the printer business” anymore than the USPS is “in to the truck business” because they buy delivery vehicles. Of course it’s not like we’ve had any success with the government building dams, or roads, or canals, or dredging rivers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391.md?page=3)