# What's with the hatred some have for the US Postal Service? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391 "2012-08-13T17:48:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/61 "2012-08-13T22:06:10Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > This “not everyone has internet” argument is bogus. Just because some people want to pretend that it’s still 1981 doesn’t mean that they get to suckle at the taxpayers teat. So all those rural people who don’t have cable or DSL available are out of luck (funny how this question seems to keep coming back to rural areas)? Or are they expected to use dialup/satellite? Or trek to their local library? To quote myself, how widely do you think physical mail is used today? What kinds of people use it? Do you think this rate should be lower? You appear (and correct me if I’m wrong) to think that the Internet is universally available and obsequious enough that no one should ever need to use physical mail. For that matter, I’m not 100% sure that we WANT to expect every American, no matter what their location or socioeconomic status, to HAVE to have a decent functioning computer in order to participate in the necessities of life. I mean, right now, having a computer, or even e-mail, isn’t an ABSOLUTE must in life. It would make you somewhat of a hermit, but you could live entirely without it. Do we really want to start making it a _requirement_? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/62 "2012-08-13T22:09:14Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > As I posted in another thread, they don’t serve every address. I have to drive a mile to get my mail. UPS probably wouldn’t do better, but let’s not pretend that the brave mail carrier is scaling cliffs to deliver mail. They also don’t have delivery _at all_ (you have delivery, at least technically) unless there are a certain number of people living in the area. Some of the tiny old crossroads communities in my county with their anachronistic post offices only have 50 households in the ZIP code, so they just get PO boxes (although that’s probably closer for them than your “delivery”). ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/63 "2012-08-13T22:11:19Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > But they don’t need to. > > Who still sends their taxes in the mail? It’s all online now. I’m a small business owner, and I have to pay monthly sales tax. I would love to be able to pay online, but for some reason I can’t. I have to file the old fashion way. Every single goshdarn month. So no, not everything is online. Maybe it all _could_ be, but it isn’t now. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/64 "2012-08-13T22:18:35Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > I think the reason some conservatives hate the USPS because it’s a way for middle-class people, _ **even minorities** _, to still get relatively good benefits, pay, and job security. > > Many conservatives seem to desire a country/world with the greatest possible economic disparity, i.e., the 'haves" and the “have-nots” being as far apart as possible. Destroying the middle-class jobs out there seems to be the fastest way to do that, so that’s what they want. > > And if those conservatives don’t hate the middle class, why do their economic policy suggestions always seem to move things in the direction of _increasing_ the wealth/income gap, thereby damaging the middle class? Wow a whole four posts before some lefty feels the need to use the predictable but still utterly repulsive charge that people who disagree with them are racists. Of course conservative blacks such as Clarence Thomas and Allen West can tell you of the hatred they receive for not practicing group think. And how well are the middle classes and lower classes faring in places where liberals hold power..like New York City, Chicago, and San Francisco. How are the schools in Washington DC? How is that hope and change we supposedly got in 2008? 41 months of unemployment over 8%, which doesn’t take into account those who drop out of the workforce and are unemployed? 46 million on food stamps. No prosecutions of the financial industry and a Treasury secretary and a number of White House staffers who don’t pay taxes As far as the USPS goes, it is semi private but they also have advantages in no taxes and government owned land for most of the buildings. It’s not the worse run government agency but then they do have competition in FedEx, UPS and others to keep them on their toes. As far as conservative opposition to municipal workers have unions, no less that Franklin Delano Roosevelt was opposed to them. They have a habit of using their power to elect politicians who will promise them generous benefits to get elected, damn the future generations who have to pay for it. Lots of municipalities are threatened with bankruptcy now. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/65 "2012-08-13T22:20:31Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > But they don’t need to. > > Who still sends their taxes in the mail? It’s all online now. First of all, there are many tax forms which cannot be filed electronically, at least not yet. For example, the form you file if you donate your car to charity must be mailed in. Second, if the IRS contacts you to let you know about a discrepancy in your return, that will be by mail. Your message in return, along with copies of any supporting documents, must also be by mail. I know because I just went through this process. My original return was filed electronically. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/66 "2012-08-13T22:21:51Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Conservative, anti-post office poster checking in. > > The post office is outdated and should be abolished. We didn’t continue using the pony express once we completed the telegraph lines. So why do we continue to have several post offices in every town after the internet has been developed? > > Everything that the post office does could be better done via another method. > > Need to pay a bill? > Do it online. > > Need to ship a package or important letter overnight? > Use FedEx/UPS. > > Need to send birthday party invitations? > Do it via Facebook. > > The only thing that the PO has a monopoly on is sending non urgent letters, and that’s only because everyone else is specifically banned from doing it. This isn’t a service that’s even needed anymore, and is only being propped up by the Direct Marketing industry sending junk mail. > > At the very least the post office should close half its locations. Even small towns in my area all have at least two post offices, often within a mile or two of each other. > > People talk about cutting Saturday delivery. Let’s try cutting everything but Saturday delivery. Seriously, when was the last time you got a letter that couldn’t wait until the end of the week? If it’s that important, send it via FedEx. > > The lavish and hideously expensive pay and benefits to the public sector union workers just makes the whole thing more of a waste. The DMV sends its annual registration stickers by mail, and I don’t know of another reasonable way for them to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/67 "2012-08-13T22:29:03Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Just because he agrees that it COULD be done a different way doesn’t mean that he can’t recognize the reality of the current situation and conform to it. > > This “not everyone has internet” argument is bogus. Just because some people want to pretend that it’s still 1981 doesn’t mean that they get to suckle at the taxpayers teat. What suckling is going on when as has been pointed out the Postal Service does not get public funding? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/68 "2012-08-13T22:43:48Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > But the question isn’t _can_ they, but _would_ they. USPS has a mandate to serve every address in the US for a flat rate (for first-class letters, at least). A private company would not have that mandate (unless you’re proposing that they should). A related question is it definitely good that everybody pays the same flat rate? If somebody decides to live in the boonies why should everybody else subsidize that? This is not necessarily my opinion but I don’t see why the flat rate is inarguably a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/69 "2012-08-13T22:47:30Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > A related question is it definitely good that everybody pays the same flat rate? If somebody decides to live in the boonies why should everybody else subsidize that? This is not necessarily my opinion but I don’t see why the flat rate is inarguably a good thing. That is absolutely a valid question. It kind of ties in to the whole concept of essential government services and to what extent individuals vs. the community as a whole pay for them. I think the founders believed that a functioning post was an essential government service - that’s why it was one of the few powers explicitly granted. Whether times have changed sufficiently that this is no longer the case is, at best, debatable. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/70 "2012-08-13T22:56:09Z")
I use USPS for my little online rummage sale of old books I don’t wamnt anymore. The Post Office is cheaper than UPS, more convenient, & far less of a hassle to use. And don’t mention those idiots at Fed Ex to me at any time! They could {EXPLETIVE DELETED} a one car funeral! ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/71 "2012-08-13T23:11:15Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What suckling is going on when as has been pointed out the Postal Service does not get public funding? Federal retirement benefits and government health care, paid holidays, vacation, etc. Private employees would kill for what postal employees have. All paid for by you and me. ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/72 "2012-08-13T23:14:35Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Federal retirement benefits and government health care, paid holidays, vacation, etc. Private employees would kill for what postal employees have. All paid for by you and me. Get a job there. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/73 "2012-08-13T23:14:58Z")
When you say you feel that a private company would do this better do you A) Imagine that a private company would buy the USPS b) Imagine that a private company would build up with it’s owns buildings, trucks and equipment C) Imagine that the Feds would simply give the infrastructure to a private company Could anyone speculate as to what options A or B would cost? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/74 "2012-08-13T23:43:45Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Federal retirement benefits and government health care, paid holidays, vacation, etc. Private employees would kill for what postal employees have. All paid for by you and me. Well, apparently if you aren’t living in 1981 (or so I hear) you don’t even have to use the USPS so therefore you don’t have to pay for shit. Its all Fex Ex, UPS and the internet baby. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/75 "2012-08-13T23:54:25Z")
I have read through the thread in its entirety. I do not recall having seen **debaser** respond to the very cogent point that the internet is not available to everyone. A lot of his/her points on the idea of ending the USPS revolve around the ability to do what the USPS does via the internet. One of the problems with the conservative mantra that things government does should be entrusted to the private sector is that the private sector won’t do what the government does. To the extent that the USPS is a government operation, it has to follow mandates that private enterprise won’t fulfill (such as making sure that everyone in the US can get ‘delivery’ of mail) for a flat rate regardless of where it is going. This is a service to the people of the US, one that was viewed at the founding of the country as so important that they made certain to empower the US itself to establish and fund such an entity. It is still important. It may be in the future that the time will come when we can do away it, but that time is not yet here. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/76 "2012-08-14T00:00:08Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Federal retirement benefits and government health care, paid holidays, vacation, etc. Private employees would kill for what postal employees have. All paid for by you and me. Yes, and they provide services to you and me. Unlike our legislators, who receive all the above and don’t do squat! Politicians draw federal retirement benefits and receive government health care. They get paid holidays and vacation. Why should they receive such compensation for their work, while the person who scrubs their toilets or handles their mail is asked to sacrifice what _they_ have fought for? That just isn’t right. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/77 "2012-08-14T00:04:16Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Federal retirement benefits and government health care, paid holidays, vacation, etc. Private employees would kill for what postal employees have. All paid for by you and me. Uh, maybe I’m mistaken, but don’t they pay for that thought their operating costs? They certainly have to pay their own retirement, since it’s the nonsense requirement to fund their retirement out for almost a century that’s causing their economic problems. Since they’re self-funded, how are you on the hook for their pay, healthcare and vacation time? Honestly, I’m confused about this, am I just off base? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/78 "2012-08-14T00:37:46Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Federal retirement benefits and government health care, paid holidays, vacation, etc. Private employees would kill for what postal employees have. All paid for by you and me. 1. They are paid for by you and me only to the extent that we buy their services, just like any private business with good benefits. No tax dollars involved. 2. If private employees want it, then they should learn the lesson and unionize and vote for candidates go support fair labor standards, such as mandatory paid leave, health care, etc. ---
**Author:** ![just\_some\_guy5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@just\_some\_guy5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/just_some_guy5)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/79 "2012-08-14T00:59:11Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And, indeed, the Postal Service subsidizes UPS and FedEx by offering below-market prices for last-mile delivery. How exactly does the USPS’s decision to offer “below-market” prices for last-mile delivery subsidize UPS and FedEx? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/80 "2012-08-14T01:10:12Z")
Because many of the Postal Service’s services are cheaper than market price. When UPS or FedEx don’t feel like finishing the delivery they hand it off to the postal service to complete the delivery, paying the postal service less than it would cost to deliver it themselves. They are then free to either pocket the difference or lower the price. Without the USPS to complete the last mile in those situations, UPS and FedEx would either have to hike their prices or take a cut in their profits. So people paying for UPS or FedEx are actually paying less than they would otherwise because the USPS is actually so efficient, they can actually hand free money to UPS and FedEx while still offering the most comprehensive and least costly service while giving their employees good compensation and benefits, all without taking a cent of taxpayer money. Privatize the Postal Service and everyone will be paying more for delivery services. Many won’t get any service. Employees will get paid less. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391.md?page=5)