# What's with the hatred some have for the US Postal Service? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391 "2012-08-13T17:48:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/101 "2012-08-14T13:25:20Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > So far as I can see, everybody who wants the USPS privatized falls into one of these 3 categories. Which one am I? I hate the post service because their signal to noise ratio is LOW. I get 12 pieces of garbage for every one piece of mail that I want. I can’t opt out of the garbarge. I HAVE TO get it. I would happily pay $10 dollars a year or so if I only got real mail. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/102 "2012-08-14T13:29:57Z")
I don’t want to see the USPS privatized and I think they provide a very valuable service. But they need to get their employee benefits under control and charge what they need to charge for postage to balance their budget. $1 per letter would be fine with me, it would still be far cheaper than FedEx or UPS. It’s also not fair to ask the PO to run like a business while they are constrained by Congress, and the postal union has pretty much squeezed every dime they can out of them in benefits, and made it easier to promote employees than discipline or fire them. I’ve seen it happen. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/103 "2012-08-14T13:30:20Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > I hate the post service because their signal to noise ratio is LOW. I get 12 pieces of garbage for every one piece of mail that I want. I can’t opt out of the garbarge. I HAVE TO get it. > > I would happily pay $10 dollars a year or so if I only got real mail. The “garbage” is helping keep the service so cheap. You would be paying a hell of a lot more than $10 without it. On top of that, the “garbage” doesn’t harm you at all. If you don’t want it, you throw it away. When you say “signal-to-noise ratio,” you imply that it is actually requiring you to expend time, effort, or resources, but it’s essentially costing you nothing. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/104 "2012-08-14T13:30:56Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > Which one am I? > > I hate the post service because their signal to noise ratio is LOW. I get 12 pieces of garbage for every one piece of mail that I want. I can’t opt out of the garbarge. I HAVE TO get it. > > I would happily pay $10 dollars a year or so if I only got real mail. Junk mail envelopes are great for grocery lists, the contents make good fire starters. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/105 "2012-08-14T13:53:02Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > On top of that, the “garbage” doesn’t harm you at all. If you don’t want it, you throw it away. When you say “signal-to-noise ratio,” you imply that it is actually requiring you to expend time, effort, or resources, but it’s essentially costing you nothing. I get so much junk (including large newspaper like coupon papers) in my mailbox I have to carefully go through them to make sure I don’t throw away anything that I need. Since it apparently costs you nothing to sort your junk mail, I assume you will disable any junk mail filters on all of your email accounts and sort through 1000 penis advertisements and nigerian scams to find the one real email you received? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/106 "2012-08-14T14:07:20Z")
I don’t believe you get anywhere near the amount of junk mail in your actual mailbox compared to what is filtered out of your E-mail account. I generally get from zero to five pieces of paper on an average day in my mailbox. My E-mail filters sort hundreds every week. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/107 "2012-08-14T14:33:29Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > I don’t want to see the USPS privatized and I think they provide a very valuable service. But they need to get their employee benefits under control and charge what they need to charge for postage to balance their budget. $1 per letter would be fine with me, it would still be far cheaper than FedEx or UPS. > > It’s also not fair to ask the PO to run like a business while they are constrained by Congress, and the postal union has pretty much squeezed every dime they can out of them in benefits, and made it easier to promote employees than discipline or fire them. I’ve seen it happen. But they would easily be within their budget if not for the conservatives in Congress (who want it to fail) forcing it to fully fund pension funds for 70 years. So they have their shit together, it’s just a group of people who want to destroy it have attached a nearly impossible working condition on them. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/108 "2012-08-14T14:41:27Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I was listening to a radio talk show a few weeks back. A talking voice representing the “privatize” side was asked about rural areas, where post office service is already iffy. How would these places get served under a privatized model? His response? “We all make choices.” That’s a mighty gentlemanly way to say “fuck 'em”. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/109 "2012-08-14T14:47:53Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t believe you get anywhere near the amount of junk mail in your actual mailbox compared to what is filtered out of your E-mail account. I generally get from zero to five pieces of paper on an average day in my mailbox. My E-mail filters sort hundreds every week. I throw away hundreds of junk mails a year. Somehow that is still “nothing,” but you reserve the right to filter your email because that would be too much work to sort out. Yea, makes sense… I am just pointing out that what I said originally was not pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/110 "2012-08-14T14:57:45Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > I throw away hundreds of junk mails a year. Somehow that is still “nothing,” but you reserve the right to filter your email because that would be too much work to sort out. Yea, makes sense… > > I am just pointing out that what I said originally was not pointless. It’s petty and out-of-proportion to reality is my point. It doesn’t actually cost you anything to throw out “hundreds” a year in time, resources, or money. And I don’t “reserve the right” to filter junk e-mail. That sentence doesn’t even make any sense. You have the right to filter your paper mail too. You can hire a secretary or a neighbor’s teenager to do it. But it’s not worth it because the cost of throwing out your junk mail yourself is in practical terms zero. E-mail filtering is a service that is offered by e-mail software because e-mail, as a technology, is far more vulnerable to wasting time and resources through junk mail by multiple orders of magnitude. E-mail services have to offer this service to users to keep e-mail even marginally viable as a useful form of communication. The Postal Service isn’t anywhere near this ballpark. If junk E-mail was comparable to junk postal mail, then the E-mail services would consider charging you for such enhanced services. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/111 "2012-08-14T15:11:27Z")
For those seriously interested in reducing the amount of junk mail they get I recommend going to the Direct Marketing Association’s web page: > **[DMAchoice is a mail preference service offered by the ANA.](https://www.dmachoice.org/)** > > DMAChoice is the only reasonable way to get rid of Junk Mail. The US post office (USPS) is no help when it comes to stopping unwanted mail. Register now to stop junk mail and emails, as well as registering the deceased and caretakers. They’ve made if fancier in recent years. You now have the ability to opt out of various types of mailings. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/112 "2012-08-14T17:09:46Z")
Ever have to stand in line at the post office? Ever have a postman bring a bunch of bills and no checks? It is something safe to hate. It is amazingly efficient and you can send a letter across the country for less than half a buck. But it is still the post office. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/113 "2012-08-14T17:12:46Z")
I’ve got a question. How does the USPS compare to other countries postal systems? IIRC it compares quite well. And if so, if you are pretty much doing it better than everybody else that at the very least is a good indication its not a money sucking boondoogle. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/114 "2012-08-14T18:12:17Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > In NH, you go to town hall to handle that. They hand it to you once you pay. Is that reasonable? There are over 3 million people in Los Angeles. Some may not have a car, but many have more than one car. So let’s say it balances out and there are 3 million cars registered in L.A. Imagine if everyone had to personally go down to city hall every year to register their cars. That’s about 12,000 per work day. The lines would be enormous. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/115 "2012-08-14T18:43:06Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I’ve donated two cars to charity. Never sent in any form. There is a set of forms that the IRS requires you to mail in, even if the rest of your return is efiled. You need to attach [Form 8453](http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8453.pdf)to those forms (caution, link is PDF on IRS web site). This form has a checklist of the forms in this set. One of those forms is Form 1098-C, Contributions of Motor Vehicles, Boats, and Airplanes. A few years ago the IRS started cracking down on people deducting too much for their donated vehicles, so they started demanding this documentation. But more importantly, clearly the existance of Form 8453 indicates that there are cases that forms must be mailed to the IRS. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/116 "2012-08-14T18:44:26Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > In NH, you go to town hall to handle that. In Russia, Town Hall handles YOU! ---
**Author:** ![just\_some\_guy5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@just\_some\_guy5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/just_some_guy5)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/117 "2012-08-14T20:05:54Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What suckling is going on when as has been pointed out the Postal Service does not get public funding? To be fair, one of the questions surrounding the USPS relates to who will ultimately have to foot the bill for all those pensions. I would agree that having to pre-fund pension liabilities is, in theory, an unfair restriction. However, it’s worth noting that the USPS isn’t actually pre-funding those pensions. For 2012, the USPS expects to show a loss of ~$14 billion (number may be higher, but I remember this figure from a while back), ~$11 billion of which represents pre-funded pension payments. However, they’re just accruing the liability (and kicking the can down the road), as they don’t have anywhere near the cash to pay for this (even without making any payments toward the ~$11 billion liability for this year, they’re planning to end the year with less than $1 billion in cash). Add to that the fact that mail services are in a longer term, secular decline, and you’ve got to think the taxpayers will end up footing the bill at some point… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/118 "2012-08-14T20:12:08Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > In NH, you go to town hall to handle that. They hand it to you once you pay. Is that reasonable? You must be retired. I work, and not all that close to my town hall. It is closed when I’m not at work, and I don’t really want to take a vacation day to avoid the mail. Actually our DMV office is closer to my house than town hall, but same issue. In any case, why spend an hour at town hall when I can spend one minute opening an envelope. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/119 "2012-08-14T20:24:28Z")
> [@just\_some\_guy5](#): > > Add to that the fact that mail services are in a longer term, secular decline, and you’ve got to think the taxpayers will end up footing the bill at some point… But how many years have the run a surplus and paid into some government account? How much has the USPS in totall paid into some sort of “retirement fund”? My impression over the past few decades is they would run a surplus and the money went somewhere, then that surplus would decrease and at some point they would get the okay to raise the prices. ---
**Author:** ![just\_some\_guy5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@just\_some\_guy5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/just_some_guy5)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/120 "2012-08-14T20:45:32Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > But how many years have the run a surplus and paid into some government account? How much has the USPS in totall paid into some sort of “retirement fund”? My impression over the past few decades is they would run a surplus and the money went somewhere, then that surplus would decrease and at some point they would get the okay to raise the prices. Just glanced at their Q3 2012 financial statement - as of 6/30/12, the USPS balance sheet shoes a “net deficiency” (i.e., assets - liabilities) of $30.6 billion ($33.7 billion if you exclude $3.1 billion in govt contributions), which is up 62% from last year ($18.9 billion). I am sure there was some point in time when they were running a surplus, but the business today is clearly on the other end of the spectrum. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391.md?page=7)