# What's with the hatred some have for the US Postal Service? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391 "2012-08-13T17:48:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/141 "2012-08-15T11:26:18Z")
That depends on what you mean by “meme” and “gone.” I still occasionally hear references to “going postal” so the concept exists. Are you asking whether there will never actually be another mass shooting in a post office? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/142 "2012-08-15T12:00:29Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That depends on what you mean by “meme” and “gone.” I still occasionally hear references to “going postal” so the concept exists. > > Are you asking whether there will never actually be another mass shooting in a post office? No. Just curious. “Going Postal” used to be the first thing that came to mind when someone mentioned the USPS? Haven’t seen mention of it here. Just an observation. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/143 "2012-08-15T12:30:02Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > There are over 3 million people in Los Angeles. Some may not have a car, but many have more than one car. So let’s say it balances out and there are 3 million cars registered in L.A. Imagine if everyone had to personally go down to city hall every year to register their cars. That’s about 12,000 per work day. The lines would be enormous. Have them do it online. Have more than one place they can go to register. There are plenty of solutions to this problem that don’t involve the mail. I was just pointing out that my entire state manages to get along just fine without it. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/144 "2012-08-15T12:32:27Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > A few years ago the IRS started cracking down on people deducting too much for their donated vehicles, so they started demanding this documentation. Coincidentally, a few years ago I stopped donating my cars to charity when I was done with them. 😃 Since they nerfed the donation system I haven’t been donating. I’m sure you’re right and they now require a physical form mailed in. However, the old system was working just fine that didn’t require a letter. If the IRS is requiring old fashioned forms to be mailed in they should modernize. That’s not a reason to keep daily mail service across the country. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/145 "2012-08-15T12:35:33Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > You must be retired. No. > [@](#): > > I work Congratulations! > [@](#): > > Actually our DMV office is closer to my house than town hall, but same issue. > In any case, why spend an hour at town hall when I can spend one minute opening an envelope. We don’t have a “DMV office” in NH. The town hall just does it. It’s never taken me more than a few minutes to find out how much I owe and write them a check and get my registration. It’s a much better system than when I lived in MA and you had to wait in line for an hour at the DMV. I go on Thursday. The town hall is open until 8PM that day. Of course, I’d prefer it was online, but I don’t really expect that to happen any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/146 "2012-08-15T14:37:52Z")
A few things need to be made clear here. The Post Office is not profitable or self sufficient anymore. It lost 5.2 billion in the last quarter, which annualized is over 20 billion. > [@](#): > > The agency reported a $5.2 billion net loss on Thursday for the quarter that ended June 30. > **[Post Office Troubles Mount With $5.2 Billion Quarterly Loss (Published 2012)](https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/10/us/politics/postal-service-reports-5-2-billion-loss-for-quarter.html)** > > The losses in the latest quarter bring total losses to $11.6 billion so far in the agency’s fiscal year, which ends Sept. 30. This is getting worse, not better: > [@](#): > > In the same period last year, the agency reported a net loss of $3.1 billion. So a 66% increase in loss in one year. And to be clear, this is not because solely because of a prefunding requirement. The prefunding requirement is $5 billion a year, equivalent to the last quarters loss. The indisputable fact is that the Post Office can not go on as it has been. Either it will become an ongoing significant cost to the tax payers, or it will be radically changed. I’d prefer it to be radically changed. I don’t have a lot of desire to pay taxes to support an anachronism. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/147 "2012-08-15T16:04:23Z")
I sell stuff on EBay and send packages to my family around the country. I love the convenience of the Post Office. It’s a two minute drive from my house. The workers are friendly (that wasn’t always the case, but they’ve massively improved the last few years) and my packages always get where they’re going. I had to send a package via UPS a few months ago. What a pain in the ass. Had to drive a much longer distance, pay a higher price and dealt with a surly teenager. The delivery was fine. I think the nearest FedEx office is at least a half hour drive away from me, maybe 45 minutes. If USPS employees are unionized I can see why the Teahadists hate it. There are also a posting here that Paul Ryan’s wife, a lobbyist for UPS, had worked to have legislation hurtful to the USPS passed. If FedEx and UPS are working to undermine the PO, then I’m with the PO. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/148 "2012-08-15T17:09:55Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Just an observation. It seems like a long time since a disgruntled post office employee went on a spree. See? Just more proof they’re underworked and overpaid. Small-government advocates must be encouraged to see that disgruntled-worker mass shootings have largely moved to the private sector where they can be performed much more efficiently. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/149 "2012-08-15T17:25:01Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Coincidentally, a few years ago I stopped donating my cars to charity when I was done with them. > > 😃 > > Since they nerfed the donation system I haven’t been donating. I’m sure you’re right and they now require a physical form mailed in. However, the old system was working just fine that didn’t require a letter. If the IRS is requiring old fashioned forms to be mailed in they should modernize. That’s not a reason to keep daily mail service across the country. Sure, the IRS should modernize. But until they do, the mail remains necessary. The point is that just because you don’t need it doesn’t mean that everyone can do without it today. If I can editorialize a little bit here, this is a common thing I see all the time on this message board: People think that their individual situation represents the universal situation. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/150 "2012-08-15T17:37:15Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I’m sure that has nothing to do with the fact that politicians are in charge of their pricing and service structure, rather than the people who run the business. It sounds an awful lot like no matter what evidence is shown, more excuses will be used. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/151 "2012-08-15T17:40:22Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Conservative, anti-post office poster checking in. > > The post office is outdated and should be abolished. We didn’t continue using the pony express once we completed the telegraph lines. So why do we continue to have several post offices in every town after the internet has been developed? > > Everything that the post office does could be better done via another method. > > Need to pay a bill? > Do it online. > > Need to ship a package or important letter overnight? > Use FedEx/UPS. > > Need to send birthday party invitations? > Do it via Facebook. > > The only thing that the PO has a monopoly on is sending non urgent letters, and that’s only because everyone else is specifically banned from doing it. This isn’t a service that’s even needed anymore, and is only being propped up by the Direct Marketing industry sending junk mail. > > At the very least the post office should close half its locations. Even small towns in my area all have at least two post offices, often within a mile or two of each other. > > People talk about cutting Saturday delivery. Let’s try cutting everything but Saturday delivery. Seriously, when was the last time you got a letter that couldn’t wait until the end of the week? If it’s that important, send it via FedEx. > > The lavish and hideously expensive pay and benefits to the public sector union workers just makes the whole thing more of a waste. My dad’s a retired mailman. I’ll tell him yet another conservative thinks his small condo is a really a mansion and his bad back just an illusion. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/152 "2012-08-15T18:43:16Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Since its reorganization in 1971, the cost of a stamp has increased considerably from 8 cents, to 44 cents in 2009. What cost $.08 in 1971 would cost $0.42 in 2009. [http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi](http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi) ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/153 "2012-08-15T21:50:30Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Fine. Then just privatize it and have it run as a business. If it’s so profitable, that shouldn’t be a problem, right? Its profitable and efficient. It needs no changes. That shouldn’t be a problem, right? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/154 "2012-08-15T21:59:35Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > My fair would be that if the Post Office were privatized, a CEO would figure it could be _more_ profitable by cutting services to small rural area. I like the fact that there is service delivery even in a small town in Alaska. The USPS is the public option of postal services. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/155 "2012-08-16T00:12:48Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > When you say you feel that a private company would do this better do you > > A) Imagine that a private company would buy the USPS > > b) Imagine that a private company would build up with it’s owns buildings, trucks and equipment > > C) Imagine that the Feds would simply give the infrastructure to a private company > > Could anyone speculate as to what options A or B would cost? I did not get an answer to this, so I will ask again. How does a private company get into the daily mail biz? Has any company public said it’s a business they _want_ to get into? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/156 "2012-08-16T00:16:47Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > What cost $.08 in 1971 would cost $0.42 in 2009. > > [http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi](http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi) The USPS should raise the stamp price to one dollar. They will take my mail in Los Angeles and deliver it to someone’s door in Maine. If that’s not worth a dollar, I don’t know what is. ---
**Author:** ![Shoujin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoujin/32/3884_2.png) [@Shoujin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoujin)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/157 "2012-08-16T00:46:06Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > The USPS should raise the stamp price to one dollar. > > They will take my mail in Los Angeles and deliver it to someone’s door in Maine. If that’s not worth a dollar, I don’t know what is. The USPS can’t arbitrarily raise postage. Any postage increase must be linear with inflation AND be approved by the [Postal Regulatory Commission](http://www.prc.gov/prc-pages/about/default.aspx): > [@](#): > > The Office of Accountability & Compliance is responsible for technical analysis and formulation of policy recommendations for the Commission in both domestic and international matters. **It provides the analytic support for Commission review of rate changes** , negotiated service agreements, classifications of new products, post office closings, and other issues. Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/158 "2012-08-16T01:06:10Z")
> [@Shoujin](#): > > The USPS can’t arbitrarily raise postage. Any postage increase must be linear with inflation AND be approved by the [Postal Regulatory Commission](http://www.prc.gov/prc-pages/about/default.aspx): Up until a few years ago, USPS would raise their postage rates every three years or so. It was a pretty good model: they’d actually run at a net profit in the first year, break even in the second year, and lose money in the third year (which was offset by the profit from year 1). Now that postal traffic is in a decline, that model doesn’t work any more. The USPS has, in the past couple of years, had several instances in which they’ve proposed a particular rate hike, and the Commission has either reduced the size of the increase, or nixed it entirely. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/159 "2012-08-16T02:27:11Z")
> [@treis](#): > > A few things need to be made clear here. The Post Office is not profitable or self sufficient anymore. It lost 5.2 billion in the last quarter, which annualized is over 20 billion. > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/10/us/politics/postal-service-reports-5-2-billion-loss-for-quarter.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/10/us/politics/postal-service-reports-5-2-billion-loss-for-quarter.html) > > This is getting worse, not better: > > So a 66% increase in loss in one year. > > And to be clear, this is not because solely because of a prefunding requirement. The prefunding requirement is $5 billion a year, equivalent to the last quarters loss. The indisputable fact is that the Post Office can not go on as it has been. Either it will become an ongoing significant cost to the tax payers, or it will be radically changed. > > I’d prefer it to be radically changed. I don’t have a lot of desire to pay taxes to support an anachronism. First of all, you dont pay taxes to support the USPS, or if so, not much. The budget shortfall is almost entire caused by the bogus pre-funding requirement. Than and Congress wont let them raise their rates. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/160 "2012-08-16T02:33:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The budget shortfall is almost entire caused by the bogus pre-funding requirement. **Treis** gave numbers with a source. What’s your source? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391.md?page=9)