# What's with the hatred some have for the US Postal Service? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391 "2012-08-13T17:48:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/161 "2012-08-16T02:37:03Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > **Treis** gave numbers with a source. What’s your source? > **[United States Postal Service](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Postal#Budget)** > > The United States Postal Service (USPS), also known as the Post Office, U.S. Mail, or simply the Postal Service, is an independent agency of the executive branch of the United States federal government responsible for providing postal service in the United States, its insular areas and associated states. It is one of a few government agencies explicitly authorized by the Constitution of the United States. As of March 29, 2024, the USPS has 525,377 career employees and nearly 114,623 pre-career ... Congressional role _Of related significance is the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006 (PAEA), which obligates the USPS to prefund 75 years’ worth of future health care benefit payments to retirees within a ten-year time span – a requirement to which no other government organization is subject. Thus, in addition to the weak economy and the diversion of mail to electronic means, the mandates of PAEA have had a considerable impact on Postal Service finances. As a consequence, it has been charged that the US Postal Service budget crisis of 2011 is, in essence, an artificial one.[31][36][37][38] Congress also has the ability to affect the USPS budget by changing rates for postage.[39_ ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/162 "2012-08-16T02:57:26Z")
2006? Seriously? Was there anything like this in place before? I’d say this qualifies as a completely artificial crisis designed to make the USPS look antiquated and unprofitable. Between nixing rate increases and forcing ridiculous pre-funding requirements, it’s pretty obvious that it is being set up to fail. It may have been another story if those requirements had been in place since 1970 (in fact, someone please tell me that they were, it’s too cynical a situation otherwise.) Then you could chalk it up to just typical Congressional meddling and the requirement for universal coverage as well as the pre-funding requirement, but as it appears, it’s simply a ridiculously see-through “starve the beast” scheme. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/163 "2012-08-16T05:11:27Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > 2006? Seriously? Was there anything like this in place before? I’d say this qualifies as a completely artificial crisis designed to make the USPS look antiquated and unprofitable. Between nixing rate increases and forcing ridiculous pre-funding requirements, it’s pretty obvious that it is being set up to fail. > > It may have been another story if those requirements had been in place since 1970 (in fact, someone please tell me that they were, it’s too cynical a situation otherwise.) Then you could chalk it up to just typical Congressional meddling and the requirement for universal coverage as well as the pre-funding requirement, but as it appears, it’s simply a ridiculously see-through “starve the beast” scheme. Exactly. Now, to be fair, it’s true various government entities have been pushing for better pension funding (and that is a Good Idea), but this is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Niply\_Elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@The\_Niply\_Elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Niply_Elder)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/164 "2012-08-16T05:21:20Z")
Could we have a Supreme Court re-interpret the Postal Office clause of the Constitution to set up high-speed internet to the entire US, including rural locations? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/165 "2012-08-16T11:24:19Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Your last line reveals what you’re really pissed about- that some people that you consider to be unworthy have secure jobs with benefits. Worse, the competition makes it necessary to provide my peons with a crust of bread in the morning and another one in the evening. If the gummint would butt out, I could save expenses and they could learn the thrifty habit of breaking the morning crust in half and saving part for later. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/166 "2012-08-16T11:27:17Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > What do you consider to be “excessive pay and benefits”? And since it’s entirely self-funded,\* why do you care how much they make\*? That’s what the ideology of class-warfare envy does to people, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/167 "2012-08-16T11:31:59Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So you’re saying we should privatize the police department? > [@Debaser](#): > > No, I didn’t say that. You most certainly did, by citing a police officer as an example of why “teh gummint yoonyuns are TEH SUXX0R”. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/168 "2012-08-16T11:40:12Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Its profitable and efficient. It needs no changes. That shouldn’t be a problem, right? Yep – just remove that job-killing Republican regulation pointed out in this thread, and they’re good to go. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/169 "2012-08-16T11:47:38Z")
> [@ryanl](#): > > I frankly don’t understand the anti-USPS sentiment espoused in this thread. I understand it fits into the wider anti-government schema embraced by some posters, but the arguments against the USPS appear a bit strained. Having lived overseas, I find it odd that people would complain about a postal service that is generally reliable, prompt, and affordable. First world problems indeed. There are two basic reasons: the ideologically-driven reason (teh gummint is TEH SUXX0R) and the greed-driven reason (each surviving pocket of middle-class pay and benefits makes it harder to drive one’s own labor costs to the bottom). ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/170 "2012-08-16T15:06:11Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > That’s what the ideology of class-warfare envy does to people, I guess. It really does. Postal work is damned hard physical labor. My dad would leave the house really early in the morning and come home looking exhausted. He delivered mail to a combination of apartment buildings and private homes in Brooklyn. He did so when it was 100 degrees out and when it was 20 twenty below and snowing. He got bitten by dogs so many times I’m still a bit afraid of them today. His salary was good enough but it was the sort of thing the current Republican presidential nominee might call pocket change. I think he retired on a top pay of about 70k a year. Who the fuck in their right mind whines the mailman is being overpaid? My own mail person retired recently after the diabetes got her. You’d see her when it was 99 degrees out and 80% humidity walking up and down the stairs around here at 11 in the afternoon panting. These people throw out the word union as if it were a curse. Well what the hell do you pay the mailman? Or the firefighter or the first grade teacher? Or the local librarian? Minimum wage? How can conservatives tell us hard work is the answer and then turn around and bitch that the guy delivering mail is overpaid? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/171 "2012-08-16T15:08:16Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Sure, the IRS should modernize. But until they do, the mail remains necessary. The point is that just because you don’t need it doesn’t mean that everyone can do without it today. I’d argue that the existence of physical mail as an option encourages lack of modernization of other processes. Why bother setting up an online system for the IRS to accept forms when they can just have people mail them in? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/172 "2012-08-16T15:11:40Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > My dad’s a retired mailman. I’ll tell him yet another conservative thinks his small condo is a really a mansion and his bad back just an illusion. What’s his pension? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/173 "2012-08-16T15:12:47Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > How does a private company get into the daily mail biz? Has any company public said it’s a business they _want_ to get into? Private companies are specifically prohibited from getting into the daily mail business. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/174 "2012-08-16T15:14:52Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > You most certainly did, by citing a police officer as an example of why “teh gummint yoonyuns are TEH SUXX0R”. No, I didn’t. It’s possible to point out that public sector unions are responsible for excesses without insisting that the service those unions provide needs to be privatized. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/175 "2012-08-16T15:17:13Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > What’s his pension? I don’t know the numbers offhand. I’m his daughter not his accountant. But I find silly you’re implying my dad is overpaid. Do you really think he should be living in a hovel with no medical care and gruel for meals after 35 years of very hard work? :dubious: What do you think is a fair salary for eight hours of hard work? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/176 "2012-08-16T15:18:25Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > What’s his pension? A GS9’s monthly pension (not counting his 401k plan or SocSec) runs about $600 after insurances and taxes, for 20 years of service. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/177 "2012-08-16T15:35:22Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Do you really think he should be living in a hovel with no medical care and gruel for meals after 35 years of very hard work? Yes, that’s what I really believe. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/178 "2012-08-16T15:45:19Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Yes, that’s what I really believe. :rolleyes: So then tell me. What should my dad be paid? Because I think he made about 70k in his last year of work. He’s not rich. He retired to a small two bedroom condo. He has medical needs that are met, a maid who comes in once every two weeks to help him with the heavy stuff and enough money to eat a standard American diet. He retired in his mid-sixties if I recall correctly. He’s 77 now and has side effects from prostate cancer, recurrent back pain and a nasty case of macular degeneration that I think is under control right now. If you’re going to whine that some people are overpaid then at least have the grace to tell us exactly what you think their salaries and retirement benefits should be. What should my dad be paid after 35 years of working for the post office? Conservatives whine that some CEO isn’t going to work hard unless we shower him with millions. Then they turn and around and tell us the mailman is a lazy, overpaid, useless millstone around our necks. ---
**Author:** ![Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fool_in_the_Rain)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/179 "2012-08-16T17:15:50Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > The DMV sends its annual registration stickers by mail, and I don’t know of another reasonable way for them to do it. > [@Debaser](#): > > In NH, you go to town hall to handle that. They hand it to you once you pay. Is that reasonable? > [@suranyi](#): > > There are over 3 million people in Los Angeles. Some may not have a car, but many have more than one car. So let’s say it balances out and there are 3 million cars registered in L.A. Imagine if everyone had to personally go down to city hall every year to register their cars. That’s about 12,000 per work day. The lines would be enormous. > [@Debaser](#): > > Have them do it online. Have more than one place they can go to register. There are plenty of solutions to this problem that don’t involve the mail. I was just pointing out that my entire state manages to get along just fine without it. Wait! So how do I get my registration sticker online? In my state they charge me extra if I show up at the DMV to renew my registration - by mail there is no fee. Uhm…so you want to abolish a basically self-sustaining reliable entity to ADD more taxes and more government jobs to hand out registration stickers? Huh…I’m confused now ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391/180 "2012-08-16T17:18:41Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > If you’re going to whine that some people are overpaid then at least have the grace to tell us exactly what you think their salaries and retirement benefits should be. What should my dad be paid after 35 years of working for the post office? Well, less, obviously. Whatever he’s getting, he should be getting less. Less is always the answer to this question. If he wanted more, he should have had the foresight to work at a job that didn’t have federal benefits and union membership. People who have government benefits and union membership are making too much. See also: teachers, police officers, and firemen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-hatred-some-have-for-the-us-postal-service/631391.md?page=10)