# whats with the Irish and English? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 7, 2002, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425 "2002-09-07T10:59:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2002, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/21 "2002-09-08T00:53:39Z")
And to think **Crusoe** was worried about this turning into a 'let’s trash Britain" thread! It seems “let’s trash **Bosda** ” is loads more popular! 😃 Most laughs I’ve had at my own expense in weeks. 😃 BTW—the above is not sarcasm. This notice provided for the humor-impaired by the _Sinead O’Connor For Pope Committee Of Walla Walla, Washington_. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2002, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/22 "2002-09-08T01:15:42Z")
Nitpick: The Irish drink **Whiskey** with an “e”. The Scots drink **Whisky** without the “e”. ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2002, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/23 "2002-09-08T01:29:36Z")
So much of the American Irish resentment to Britain seems based on a romanticised view of both Irish and UK history. Recently New York City dedicated a memorial to the Great Hunger, which some historians have criticised as playing directly into the black-and-white view noted above. It’s true that many (although I don’t think it’s even near a majority) of Irish immigrants came during and right after the Hunger. And as I understand it, it’s probably true that English were quite ineffectual in dealing with it - but it’s doubtful _any_ government of the time would’ve been any better. But many of the Irish, already resentful of English social and political power, were all too ready to believe that the English would intentionally let hundreds of thousands of them die. Combine that with the pervasive discrimination the Irish confronted in the United States - often by persons of English descent - and, well, you have a narrative that’s very difficult to to uproot. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2002, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/24 "2002-09-08T11:57:04Z")
One of my chess mates ( 🙂 ) is from Northern Ireland (I’m English), and he spent an evening running through 900+ years of Englishmen interacting with Ireland. So it’s not a trivial or simple conflict. On a personal note: As a law-abiding UK citizen, I am stunned by the sight of other UK citizens, **who particularly claim to respect the Monarchy** , throwing petrol bombs at the police\*. Or shouting abuse (and throwing missiles) at children because they are walking to a school that teaches a different branch of Christianity. - because a march has been banned on the obvious grounds it would create a public disturbance. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2002, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/25 "2002-09-08T12:41:05Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by glee \* > As a law-abiding UK citizen, I am stunned by the sight of other UK citizens, **who particularly claim to respect the Monarchy** , throwing petrol bombs at the police._ Yeah, I’ve often thought that if they were truly ‘Loyal’ they should shut the fuck up and do what we say. 😃 However, in reality I think the loyalty is actually only to their own hegemony… ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/26 "2002-09-09T04:38:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samarm \* > \*\*Nitpick: The Irish drink **Whiskey** with an “e”. The Scots drink **Whisky** without the “e”. \*\* What if you’re Scots-Irish? ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/27 "2002-09-09T11:00:41Z")
Do you guys all really think this was a legitimate question? the OP? Damn, I smell a troll. Even from an Aussie that was a fairly ridiculous question, IMHO. BTW, Does anyone know why the English have a problem with Germany? (thought I heard that somewhere…) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/28 "2002-09-09T16:05:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aro \* > \*\* > BTW, Does anyone know why the English have a problem with Germany? (thought I heard that somewhere…) 😃 \*\* I’ve heard rumours about them not seeing quite eye-to-eye with the French. Does anyone have any more info? ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/29 "2002-09-09T18:33:22Z")
I feel I should apologise somewhat for a snippy (and not entirely well-thought out) first response in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/30 "2002-09-09T19:01:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crusoe \* > \*\*I feel I should apologise somewhat for a snippy (and not entirely well-thought out) first response in this thread. \*\* Why? This is the SDMB. A certain ammount of give & take is normal here. If **we** can’t **take** what you **gave** , why, we’re too sensitive! ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/31 "2002-09-09T19:15:14Z")
Okay, cool. I think. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/32 "2002-09-09T21:08:26Z")
… but when has that ever stopped me sticking my two cents in. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tamerlane \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally posted by Crusoe > > Personally, I think too often the religious aspects and the familiarity of the conflict are downplayed while the (admittedly fundamental) role of the English is overplayed. > > Actually, I’ve always been of the opinion that the religious aspect is _overplayed_, at least in the general media.\*\* I think, in a sense, you’re both right. The issue is - particularly in the States - too commonly mischaracterised as a holy war, as if the two sides would be just as happy to convert as to kill each other. But it’s also too commonly mischaracterised as a battle between Ireland and Britain, ignoring the real issue on the ground which is the deep animosity between the communities _within the six counties themselves_. From the republican perspective, the English - I suppose it’s more accurate to say the British, but let’s face it England has pretty much always been the one wearing the trousers - do bear the ultimate responsibility for the ongoing conflict (and it isn’t as remote as that word “ultimate” might make it seem). But we know your average Englishman isn’t _personally_ responsible for it and, indeed, probably wishes his country had never heard of this island in the first place. And if jjimm wants to hand me his severed fingers, I’ll use them to count the number of Irish I know who actually do just hate English people. Admittedly I do know a few. But not many. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/33 "2002-09-10T01:01:02Z")
What, you _know Roy Keane_??!!! That’s gonna impress a few people round here. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/34 "2002-09-10T14:23:42Z")
I just wanted to pop in and say **Tamerlane** has got his/her Williams straight. 😉 William III is one bastard we should not have exported, in hindsight. Of course, there’s a lot more of them, although they weren’t all called William. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/35 "2002-09-10T18:47:29Z")
I don’t think Roy Keane hates the English everton, after all his wife and kids are English. ---
**Author:** ![Kilt-wearin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kilt-wearin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilt-wearin_man)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/36 "2002-09-10T19:41:32Z")
Definitive answers to Irish history questions - at least up to the 1920’s - can be found in _The Story of the Irish Race_ by Seumas MacManus. Read it if you have any questions about what happened in Ireland and when. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/37 "2002-09-11T13:27:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > \*\*What, you _know Roy Keane_??!!! That’s gonna impress a few people round here. \*\* If you’re refering to the “English Wanker” comment I’ve got news for you, it’s not true. he called him a wanker alright but nationality never came into it. As for the OP (well whatever it is) Yep there are anamosities but mostly as **Twisty** says it’s about previous administrations not the people. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/38 "2002-09-11T16:16:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > **If you’re refering to the “English Wanker” comment I’ve got news for you, it’s not true. he called him a wanker alright but nationality never came into it.** Your cite being… Roy Keane (via Eamonn Dunphy). ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/39 "2002-09-11T19:28:22Z")
This thread makes me want to pop down to the pub for a pint! ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425/40 "2002-09-12T00:11:57Z")
Doh - I know all that stuff about Keano, I was winding you up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-irish-and-english/127425.md?page=3)