# What's with the memetic status associated with black/brown jackets and coats? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 19, 2017, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782 "2017-04-19T10:25:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/41 "2017-04-19T20:22:57Z")
> [@dude\_robert](#): > > Mhm, you have misinterpreted. Uhh, I was talking about damage to the jacket, not the person which is a bonus. Some of those duck filled down jackets looked like if I fell over on some sharp and jagged and rough textured rocks, they would be ripped apart or the ‘skin’ holding the duck inside would be literally scraped off. > > Or even so fragile that if I tripped on some concrete, the air pressure inside the filled duck air pockets would make the fabric pockets ‘pop’ open kind of like when you open a chips bag by putting pressure on it until it explodes. > > I think that’s why I was looking at oilskin or leather, because they don’t have the complicated and fragile duck filled air pockets inside that might rupture if pressure is placed on them. Have you ever touched one? Like, actually seen one IRL? Because this is about as valid a worry as thinking that you’ll be attacked by a lion for wearing cowskin, because vicious animals would be attracted by the smell of the leather. > [@](#): > > I am sort of looking for a good jacket that is fire-resistant, waterproof, durable, lightweight and breathable. I want it to be able to withstand high-pressure fire hoses being sprayed at me, just incase some random person smashes a fire hydrant which explodes near me or a car drives into a puddle near a foot-path. And let me guess – you want it to be $50 or less. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/42 "2017-04-19T20:27:33Z")
> [@dude\_robert](#): > > I think that’s why I was looking at oilskin or leather, because they don’t have the complicated and fragile duck filled air pockets inside that might rupture if pressure is placed on them. You saw my links, yes? Because people wear those “complicated and fragile duck filled air pockets” in exceptionally difficult environments where _they will die_ if the jacket ruptures. Plus, those chambers are not air tight. A good down jacket (depending on the weight) can be squeezed down to the size of a coffee mug. My zero degree (F) sleeping bag could get real small. Old-school coffee can sized.maybe? ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/43 "2017-04-19T20:35:03Z")
> [@dude\_robert](#): > > I thought trenchcoats were actually supposed to be very good jackets, and that’s why they are named “trench” coats, since they would be like water-proof and very durable or something. I guess not? [Trenchcoats](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_coat%5B/url) were originally used by Army officers in trenches in World War I. They were supposed to be waterproof in rainy conditions but were not designed to be particularly warm in cold weather. They would be worn over some warmer garment in cold weather. Today, trenchcoats are often confused with [dusters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duster_(clothing)), which were originally worn by horsemen to keep dust off their clothes. For example, the infamous Columbine shooters wore dusters, not trenchcoats. Dusters are not particularly warm either. If you want warmth, you should be looking at a down coat, but since you seem to have some superstitious aversion to down coats, perhaps a pea coat. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/44 "2017-04-19T20:44:16Z")
> [@dude\_robert](#): > > So apparently there is some sort of “metalhead/gothic/emo” meme that happens when you wear a heavy jacket so you don’t freeze. I don’t understand this, why does wearing warm and protected clothes make you a stereotypical “vampire goth emo” type of person? Define said jacket, show picture please? Goth/Vamp/Emo styles do not exactly trend on the warm side per say, so with out a pic of what you have in mind for reference i can only guess at what you mean. > [@](#): > > Also, there seems to be a thing about hottopic. What’s wrong with shopping at hottopic? Is it just that they might sell expensive clothes and everyone else is jealous that they can’t afford them, so they all gang up together and create a negative meme about it? I mean, surely adults should not be insulting people on their clothes style or fashion, especially if they’re wearing their black jackets because it’s cold, like 99.99% of the population who wears thick jackets. Hot Topic sells mostly over price cheaply made stuff that i would call their version of anti-trendy. I don’t think the sell jack diddly that i would even consider a decent winter coat though. Black Jacket does not equate to warm. Again, with no examples offered, it’s all conjecture. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/45 "2017-04-19T20:48:25Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > If you want warmth, you should be looking at a down coat, but since you seem to have some superstitious aversion to down coats, perhaps a pea coat. Nothing wrong with a good wool top coat. That was my number 1 most useful possession in college. You could hide an enormous amount of alcohol in it, and it worked great as a blanket in the event that couch surfing was necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/46 "2017-04-19T20:57:44Z")
You seem to be overly worried about what some people who spend a lot of time looking for people to insult on reddit might think about a hypothetical jacket or coat that you might buy because of a thread where they talked vaguely about black trenchcoats or something like that, and about Hot Topic even though you’ve never been there. My answer to that is that it’s not really worth putting in a lot of effort to avoid some losers who you’ve never met possibly not liking your clothing choices. If you wear a dark coat, no one is actually going to notice. If you start wearing a black trenchcoat with lots of buckles, people will probably think you’re going for a goth (or emo or whatever) look. Either don’t seek out that look (it’s not hard to buy fairly plain outerwear) or embrace it. ---
**Author:** ![dude\_robert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8e7dd6/32.png) [@dude\_robert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dude_robert)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/47 "2017-04-19T21:17:15Z")
> [@Weisshund](#): > > Define said jacket, show picture please? > Goth/Vamp/Emo styles do not exactly trend on the warm side per say, so with out a pic of what you have in mind for reference i can only guess at what you mean. > > Hot Topic sells mostly over price cheaply made stuff that i would call their version of anti-trendy. > I don’t think the sell jack diddly that i would even consider a decent winter coat though. > > Black Jacket does not equate to warm. > > Again, with no examples offered, it’s all conjecture. Not true. I offered a imgur link to a bunch of screenshots of reddit posts. The jackets they were talking about were just generic dark-colored coats. > [@markn\_1](#): > > [Trenchcoats](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_coat%5B/url) were originally used by Army officers in trenches in World War I. They were supposed to be waterproof in rainy conditions but were not designed to be particularly warm in cold weather. They would be worn over some warmer garment in cold weather. > > Today, trenchcoats are often confused with [dusters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duster_(clothing)), which were originally worn by horsemen to keep dust off their clothes. For example, the infamous Columbine shooters wore dusters, not trenchcoats. Dusters are not particularly warm either. If you want warmth, you should be looking at a down coat, but since you seem to have some superstitious aversion to down coats, perhaps a pea coat. What about insulated coats by synthetics or leather coats or oilskins? I like the oilskins especially because they emit a gorgeous oily odour that just smells amazing and should hopefully keep nasty-smelling odours away. They also look very professional and don’t look “shady” at all. Some of them are even lined with cotton woolly fleece stuff on the insides which would be very warm and comfortable. > [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > You saw my links, yes? Because people wear those “complicated and fragile duck filled air pockets” in exceptionally difficult environments where _they will die_ if the jacket ruptures. > > Plus, those chambers are not air tight. A good down jacket (depending on the weight) can be squeezed down to the size of a coffee mug. My zero degree (F) sleeping bag could get real small. Old-school coffee can sized.maybe? Could you share a link where the duck jackets are squashed down into a coffee mug? I’ve heard of jackets been squashed into large kevlar bags, but not coffee mugs. I guess the expensive duck filled jackets are more durable looking than the cheaper ones. Anyway, I’ve felt and looked at them before in real life; they feel velvety and plushy like luxurious blankets or clothes and IMHO they feel like if I squeezed them with my fingers too hard, they would explode in a storm of duck feathers and cotton stuffing. The ones in the linked pictures are definitely much thicker than normal duck suits, and would probably literally kill me in minutes of I attempted to wear one where I’m living. Those ones are probably tested to much higher standards and are probably very, very expensive compared to normal jackets you find in camping stores. Even with this almost-assured durability, they **still** look like they’ll rupture if someone falls over on them. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Have you ever touched one? Like, actually seen one IRL? Because this is about as valid a worry as thinking that you’ll be attacked by a lion for wearing cowskin, because vicious animals would be attracted by the smell of the leather. > > And let me guess – you want it to be $50 or less. Yes, they feel velvety and plushy. The covering protecting the pockets feels thin and synthetic and you can feel the duck stuffing moving about inside. I probably wouldn’t mind wearing a duck filled jacket under a oilskin or leather jacket or synthetic covering like a goretex pro or neoshell if I were to venture into cold places, though. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/48 "2017-04-19T22:06:35Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > Nothing wrong with a good wool top coat. That was my number 1 most useful possession in college. You could hide an enormous amount of alcohol in it, and it worked great as a blanket in the event that couch surfing was necessary. Yeah. Something like [this](https://www.amazon.com/Kenneth-Cole-New-York-Breasted/dp/B01IVEH7N4/ref=cts_ap_1_vtp?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=2897711222&pf_rd_r=6RMC3BFWW634BR90YMAF&pd_rd_wg=esqo5&pf_rd_s=desktop-detail-softlines&pf_rd_t=40701&pd_rd_i=B01IVEFY8Y&pd_rd_w=AezlS&pf_rd_i=desktop-detail-softlines&pd_rd_r=6RMC3BFWW634BR90YMAF&_encoding=UTF8&th=1), or [this](https://www.amazon.com/Nautica-Mens-Button-Blend-Topcoat/dp/B01750ESJG/ref=pd_sim_193_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01750ESJG&pd_rd_r=FMGCE5ZF5JWBHN47FHGN&pd_rd_w=K0eaL&pd_rd_wg=lY7rC&refRID=FMGCE5ZF5JWBHN47FHGN), or [this](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71tLGNfkYtL._UL1500_.jpg). Warm, looks good, and you can wear it with anything. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/49 "2017-04-19T22:07:08Z")
> [@dude\_robert](#): > > I guess the expensive duck filled jackets are more durable looking than the cheaper ones. Anyway, I’ve felt and looked at them before in real life; they feel velvety and plushy like luxurious blankets or clothes and IMHO they feel like if I squeezed them with my fingers too hard, they would explode in a storm of duck feathers and cotton stuffing. They’re not going to. Consider the REI jacket someone else posted. You could stomp on it if you wanted. Ripstop nylon is tough. And for the record, there are no feathers in there. It’s down. And it’s not from ducks, but geese. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/50 "2017-04-19T22:52:11Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yeah. Something like [this](https://www.amazon.com/Kenneth-Cole-New-York-Breasted/dp/B01IVEH7N4/ref=cts_ap_1_vtp?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=2897711222&pf_rd_r=6RMC3BFWW634BR90YMAF&pd_rd_wg=esqo5&pf_rd_s=desktop-detail-softlines&pf_rd_t=40701&pd_rd_i=B01IVEFY8Y&pd_rd_w=AezlS&pf_rd_i=desktop-detail-softlines&pd_rd_r=6RMC3BFWW634BR90YMAF&_encoding=UTF8&th=1), or [this](https://www.amazon.com/Nautica-Mens-Button-Blend-Topcoat/dp/B01750ESJG/ref=pd_sim_193_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01750ESJG&pd_rd_r=FMGCE5ZF5JWBHN47FHGN&pd_rd_w=K0eaL&pd_rd_wg=lY7rC&refRID=FMGCE5ZF5JWBHN47FHGN), or [this](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71tLGNfkYtL._UL1500_.jpg). Warm, looks good, and you can wear it with anything. It depends where you live. If you’re trying to keep warm in 40 degree F weather, then those coats might be fine. If it’s 20 below zero, you’ll freeze to death wearing something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/51 "2017-04-19T23:02:25Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > It depends where you live. If you’re trying to keep warm in 40 degree F weather, then those coats might be fine. If it’s 20 below zero, you’ll freeze to death wearing something like that. “I’m on an expedition to Antarctica and all the other researchers are making fun of my goth jackets…” ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/52 "2017-04-20T10:34:41Z")
> [@dude\_robert](#): > > … > > Anyway, the temperature over here is quite temperate, BUT I like to be over-prepared anyway. > > I am sort of looking for a good jacket that is fire-resistant, waterproof, durable, lightweight and breathable. I want it to be able to withstand high-pressure fire hoses being sprayed at me, just incase some random person smashes a fire hydrant which explodes near me or a car drives into a puddle near a foot-path. I live in Western Australia, BTW, so REI and the rest of the USA shops aren’t really here. > > What about small chain mails? I think I’ve seen some where the threads are quite small and is supposed to stop small blade weapons, but I might be wrong. Mate, just how over-prepared do you want to be? It probably hasn’t snowed in WA since humans arrived there. The lowest EVER temperature was -6.9C which is about 20 deg F. 98% of it is desert. And random hydrants? Your risk of snow-blindness is probably higher. Just get a lined oilskin, and make sure its a bit longer, so your arse doesn’t freeze. Too long and you’ll look like a wanker unless you can convince people you’re a stockman down from the Pilbara. It will make you look like a sensible grown up who buys for value rather than looks. Alternately buy your chainmail vest and see how that protects you against hydrants and snowdrifts. Butr make sure its mithril, because you don’t want to just be wearing any old crap. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/53 "2017-04-20T11:53:06Z")
> [@dude\_robert](#): > > Or even so fragile that if I tripped on some concrete, the air pressure inside the filled duck air pockets would make the fabric pockets ‘pop’ open kind of like when you open a chips bag by putting pressure on it until it explodes. Hm. Now I’m wondering of pockets of duck air would act as effective soundproofing, given the echo properties of shaped duck air. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/54 "2017-04-20T12:27:58Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > It depends where you live. If you’re trying to keep warm in 40 degree F weather, then those coats might be fine. If it’s 20 below zero, you’ll freeze to death wearing something like that. If I were at 20 below zero, I’d want to. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/55 "2017-04-20T14:17:17Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Hm. Now I’m wondering of pockets of duck air would act as effective soundproofing, given the echo properties of shaped duck air. Depends on which end of the duck the air came out of. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/56 "2017-04-20T20:55:04Z")
I tended towards dark wool coats and jackets before we moved from New England. Now that we are in Florida I am down to one tweed jacket (it’s Harris tweed; it wears like iron and looks all intelligent-like) and my brown leather jacket from the 1980s. I almost bought a gray greatcoat once but it made me look uncomfortably Prussian. To the OP - wear what you like and don’t waste your energy worrying about what some kids on Reddit might say. ---
**Author:** ![Unabashed\_Fascist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c2a13f/32.png) [@Unabashed\_Fascist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unabashed_Fascist)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/57 "2017-04-20T21:37:58Z")
This is somewhat tangentially related to this thread. Back in January I was in Denver CO for work, and decided to use my one day off to visit a few historic landmarks which included the Aurora theater and the Columbine massacre memorial. It was cold so I brought my coat, which just happens to be a British Navy Greatcoat that I bought at a military surplus store. Black, brass buttons, goes down to the back of my knees. In other words it looks kind of like a trench-coat. I was also (by total coincidence) wearing my black Dr Martens, black shirt and black jeans because that’s how I dress more or less all the time. When I got there, there was a family leaving a few items on Rachel Scott’s plaque: a candle, a cross, and a notebook with handwritten pages (I opened it after they left, but decided it wasn’t for me to read). They might have been friends or relatives for all I know. Long story short, I got a few death glares from them, and other visitors as I walked around. I honestly didn’t know why at first, but I figured it out soon enough. I probably looked like I was an admirer of Eric and Dylan, coming to pay homage to their legacy or something. That or just a huge jerk. I ran back to my car and put on my pink hoodie after that. Boy I was embarrassed and a little bit ashamed. Tangent to this tangent: Today is the 18th anniversary of the shooting, for anyone keeping track. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/58 "2017-04-20T22:39:18Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > May I ask, what type of heavy coat are you talking about?. . . > > [This](http://www.hottopic.com/product/harry-potter-snape-coat/10753029.html?cgid=guys-outerwear) tribute to Professor Snape? > . so i clicked on your link because i just had to see what a “snape coat” was and now my browser is spamming me hard with Hottopic ads. . .so i got that going for me. . . mc ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782/59 "2017-04-20T23:22:15Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > so i clicked on your link because i just had to see what a “snape coat” was and now my browser is spamming me hard with Hottopic ads. . .so i got that going for me. . . > > mc Hm, I have an ad blocker running, so never saw any ads. Is there something else in your browsing history that would make the Internet think you’re a moody teenager? 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-memetic-status-associated-with-black-brown-jackets-and-coats/784782.md?page=2)