# What's with the pattern on Tiger tank armor? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 12, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392 "2010-11-12T04:20:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/1 "2010-11-12T04:20:52Z")
Some but not all [Tiger I](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-299-1805-10,_Nordfrankreich,_Panzer_VI_(Tiger_I).jpg) and [Tiger II](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tiger_II_mg_7802.jpg) tanks had a strange pattern of horizontal grooves on the surface of the armor plates. Why? Was it marks from rollers at the ironworks? Was the metal shaped using pneumatic hammers? Was it an artifact from a passivation or tempering step? A secondary layer, or what? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/2 "2010-11-12T04:23:50Z")
My WAG is that the turret and body are cast and those marks are left by the mold. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/3 "2010-11-12T04:29:04Z")
It’s a layer of Zimmerit, a paste applied to the armor to keep magnetic mines from staying on. [Zimmerit](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmerit) ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/4 "2010-11-12T04:35:54Z")
They have some experts at the [Military Vehicle Technology Foundation](http://www.mvtf.org/). I think they have a research library there, 'One of the volunteers has his own page at [http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/mvtf.htm](http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/mvtf.htm)–he really knows his stuff. _eta: oops, too late!_ ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/5 "2010-11-12T04:36:52Z")
> [@Spiny\_Norman](#): > > It’s a layer of Zimmerit, a paste applied to the armor to keep magnetic mines from staying on. > > [Zimmerit](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmerit) Aha! I thought that it looked like goop! ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/6 "2010-11-12T04:38:25Z")
[QUOTE=Wiki] Zimmerit was a coating produced for German armored fighting vehicles during World War II for the purpose of combating magnetically attached anti-tank mines, although Germany was the only country to use magnetic mines against tanks in great numbers. [/QUOTE] Jeez, sounds like yet another factory option you don’t actually need. Those damn greedy tank dealerships! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/7 "2010-11-12T04:43:26Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Jeez, sounds like yet another factory option you don’t actually need. Those damn greedy tank dealerships! See, they install that Zimmerit at the factory, there’s nothin’ we can do, but I’ll talk to my boss. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/8 "2010-11-12T04:49:45Z")
If you complain loudly enough, you can usually get them to throw in color-and-texture coordinated floormats. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/9 "2010-11-12T04:57:35Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > See, they install that Zimmerit at the factory, there’s nothin’ we can do, but I’ll talk to my boss. So’s… I talked to tha boss, and he said that while the Zimmerit is okay, you really need the Ziebart protection. I know it costs, but just picture this: you’re out on a Friday night, and right as things start picking up a bit… a mine pops up through a rust hole in your undercarriage! ---
**Author:** ![Rodd\_Hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@Rodd\_Hill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodd_Hill)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/10 "2010-11-12T20:22:24Z")
For another RM 875, we can put on the anti-antitank dogmine undercoating. Guaranteed to last one thousand years! ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/11 "2010-11-13T09:41:29Z")
Extended warranty? How can I lose?! ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/12 "2010-11-13T14:25:35Z")
I cannot help but wonder if the rough texture of the coating, designed to keep mines from sticking as Spiny Norman says, didn’t also help cut down on glare/reflection and make the tanks less visible. It’s difficult to tell if it made any difference from limited B&W photos. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/13 "2010-11-14T20:10:41Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I cannot help but wonder if the rough texture of the coating, designed to keep mines from sticking as Spiny Norman says, didn’t also help cut down on glare/reflection and make the tanks less visible. It’s difficult to tell if it made any difference from limited B&W photos. The Tiger tanks had gasoline engines, and I think that tanks from that era had close to open exhausts. I doubt that anything would camouflage a moving WWII-era tank, but the coating might help hide a dug-in tank. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/14 "2010-11-14T20:34:01Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > See, they install that Zimmerit at the factory, there’s nothin’ we can do, but I’ll talk to my boss. Ya call me up here an’ say, come on down ‘n get it, and now you’re wastin’ my time, and my wife’s time, and… and I’m payin’ nineteen-five for this tank here! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/15 "2010-11-14T20:34:21Z")
> [@](#): > > The Tiger tanks had gasoline engines, and I think that tanks from that era had close to open exhausts. That would make them show up under thermal imaging, but was that widely used in WWII? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/16 "2010-11-14T20:36:47Z")
> [@cornflakes](#): > > The Tiger tanks had gasoline engines, and I think that tanks from that era had close to open exhausts. I doubt that anything would camouflage a moving WWII-era tank, but the coating might help hide a dug-in tank. Tigers usually were. Powerful though they were, they were slow and accelerated poorly and their engines were unreliable. For most of the war the Germans were fighting a defensive battle and their tanks were quite often fighting from prepared positions. Even without the goop they would have applied a matte paint to all fighting vehicles, so the goop definitely served a purpose they’d have had to use paint to accomplish anyway. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/17 "2010-11-15T05:52:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That would make them show up under thermal imaging, but was that widely used in WWII? I think that the Germans used it, but only at the end. I seem to remember reading a comment in a book on the Battle of the Bulge that an American officer was surprised when German tanks drove through a town in the dark of night, and he correctly guessed that they had developed thermal imaging. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/18 "2010-11-15T07:19:44Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Ya call me up here an’ say, come on down ‘n get it, and now you’re wastin’ my time, and my wife’s time, and… and I’m payin’ nineteen-five for this tank here! I just want to say I love that movie! _“Well, he never done this before, but seein’ as it’s special circumstances and all, he says I can knock one hunnert off that Zimmerit.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/19 "2010-11-15T08:01:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That would make them show up under thermal imaging, but was that widely used in WWII? I interpreted his comment to mean that they were smoky and noisy when moving. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392/20 "2010-11-15T14:10:28Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I cannot help but wonder if the rough texture of the coating, designed to keep mines from sticking as Spiny Norman says, didn’t also help cut down on glare/reflection and make the tanks less visible. It’s difficult to tell if it made any difference from limited B&W photos. Well, the first (color) photo in the OP shows that they applied camo paint over the zimmerit. So evidently they didn’t think the zimmerit itself was enough. We also know that when they stopped using zimmerit, they didn’t do anything else to change the texture of the armor, other than paint, and we know that nobody else did any kind of camoflauge coating other than paint. There were at times foliage netting applied to tanks as camo, so we know that it was occasionally a concern. From this, I think we can conclude that even if zimmerit did help camoflauge, nobody at the time thought it was a big enough effect to bother with replicating. Which makes intuitive sense to me: paint should be enough to block shiny glare from the armor, and after that it’s the outline of the tank and big blocks of solid color that are going to be noticed, not small-scale texture. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-with-the-pattern-on-tiger-tank-armor/560392.md?page=2)