# What's wrong, if anything, with community colleges? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 15, 2010, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225 "2010-10-15T09:46:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/41 "2010-10-15T20:09:05Z")
> [@SpartanDC](#): > > But, honestly, unless you simply do not have the means or ability to move away from home, I would almost always recommend a traditional 4-year program to a properly motivated student. While the classes at community college are on par with those at 4-year schools, the extracurricular activities are nowhere near as good. The best part of my college experience was working for a full-blown daily campus newspaper. A community college can’t offer that. It also can’t offer the multitude of clubs, activities, varsity and intramural athletics and other things that are part and parcel of a 4-year school. > > Plus, there’s the stuff you can’t as easily quantify – the experience of living away from home, in a dorm (or just off campus) and navigating the college social scene is more than just an excuse to party and get drunk. It also makes you do some growing up (some of it the hard way). I wouldn’t trade it for anything in the world. I agree with all of this, actually. A community college experience is different than a four-year institution experience. It’s difficult to build a rich extracurricular activity schedule at a commuter campus, although we do try. We do have a monthly campus student newsletter, but our athletics were cut due to state funding cuts several years ago. However, some people either don’t want those experiences, don’t need them, or can’t afford them. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/42 "2010-10-15T20:28:08Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > CCs are great for people needing a two year terminal degree, like in nursing. They are good for people who cannot afford a four year college, or whose parents feel they need a test before being sent away. But I’ve seen lots of problems. You can go to a community college and learn therapeutic massage or something similar for massively cheaper than a for profit school would charge. Like 1/10th the cost. Maybe that’s not exactly different than your point about 2 year terminal degrees. But they’re perfectly respectable careers and the education/training is less intensive than even a 2 year nursing degree. The alternative is paying 10x as much. CCs are great for that. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/43 "2010-10-15T20:30:14Z")
I did the 2-year thing at a CC, transferred over to a 4-year college to get my degree and also took a handful of graduate courses. Even to this day the courses I got the most out and use all the time are the CC courses and the graduate courses. They were normally taught by people who were not full-time teachers but actual people who worked in the real world in their areas of expertice. The professors at the 4-year were sort of a bunch of jag-offs who taught theory and didn’t really have a clue of skills needed in the real-world workplace. Oversized lectures, TAs, fighting for tenure profs, etc. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/44 "2010-10-15T20:35:59Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > However, some people either don’t want those experiences, don’t need them, or can’t afford them. Exactly. I’ve gone to 5 different CCs in my life, and 9 different 4 year college/universities. At none of them did I ever desire to be “part of the college experience.” Screw the social life, I’m there to learn the material, get the credits and move on. On edit: What **Hampshire** said as well. ---
**Author:** ![SpartanDC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@SpartanDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpartanDC)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/45 "2010-10-15T20:44:16Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > The professors at the 4-year were sort of a bunch of jag-offs who taught theory and didn’t really have a clue of skills needed in the real-world workplace. Oversized lectures, TAs, fighting for tenure profs, etc. That’s just a poorly designed program – what was your major? Literally every journalism professor I had in college (that was my major) had in their very recent past been a reporter and/or editor. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/46 "2010-10-15T20:47:52Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Exactly. I’ve gone to 5 different CCs in my life, and 9 different 4 year college/universities. What? How does that work? Piqued my interest! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/47 "2010-10-16T01:30:51Z")
One thing I know–the English classes at my CC are much harder than the ones at the four year college I went to. It was the CC that seemed to be preparing you for being an English major, while the four-year actually taught you how to write. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/48 "2010-10-16T01:40:49Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > > [@silenus](#): > > > > Exactly. I’ve gone to 5 different CCs in my life, and 9 different 4 year college/universities. > > What? How does that work? Piqued my interest! Well, I was only thrown out of one of them! The first couple of years out of high school, I was simultaneously enrolled in one of three different CCs while also attending 2 4 year schools. Then I started moving north. Add the state school I was thrown out of. Then off to Alaska where I attended, off and on, 1 CC and 2 4 years. Back to California, finishing up my degree at a 4 year, while at the same time working on both a teaching credential and a teaching certificate at a different 4 year. Then add another certification, random course work for salary advancement, and a final certification and we are up to date. San Bernardino Valley College Crafton Hills College San Bernardino State University University of Redlands Riverside Community College University of California, Riverside Humboldt State University Anchorage Community College University of Alaska, Anchorage Alaska Methodist University UCLA University of San Diego Fredrickburg Community College I think that’s the lot. eta: I’m forgetting one. Must be Aspen State Teacher’s College. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/49 "2010-10-16T01:43:29Z")
I did about a year and a half at the local community college and then transferred to a four year school. My reasons were financial. Most of my professors were just as dedicated and experienced as the ones I experienced at my four-year. I had quite a few with doctorates, and some without – much the same as the latter. ---
**Author:** ![gladtobeblazed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@gladtobeblazed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gladtobeblazed)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/50 "2010-10-16T03:01:30Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > It isn’t generally true though that calculus is calculus. It may be nice to have a smaller class, but not if the class is structured to move slower and be less rigorous than the equivalent course at a university. Did you or your husband study a field like engineering where calculus is a foundation for much more complicated math and quantitative courses, or was it just a requirement? Calculus is pretty much the same all over. Some schools might have calculus for business majors that is less rigorous, but I wouldn’t expect that to be the only calculus class available at a community college. I’ve attended 2 community colleges and 2 state universities and they all had 2 basic calculus courses depending on the major. From what I remember you couldn’t take Calculus 2 if all you had before was Business Calculus, the more rigorous calculus class was a prerequisite. Both community colleges I attended had better professors than the state universities I later transferred to. However, both CCs were among the best in my state. In fact, I probably learned _more_ because I went to a CC first. All the engineering majors at the CC were encouraged to take 3 semesters of physics, but when I transferred to the university, only 3 _quarters_ of physics were required. I even managed to cram in an extra semester of chemistry and history because it was cheap. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/51 "2010-10-16T12:03:08Z")
My alma mater operates both a traditional university and a community college. University graduates’ starting salaries average 2 to 3 times what the community college graduates can make. If they can find work. Many fields require a master or a doctorate to get work, so there are a lot of unemployed and underemployed graduates. Community college graduates don’t make as much money, but they seem to have a much easier time finding work. Before the present recession, the community college claimed a 98% placement rate for its graduates. ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/52 "2010-10-16T21:22:05Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > It isn’t generally true though that calculus is calculus. It may be nice to have a smaller class, but not if the class is structured to move slower and be less rigorous than the equivalent course at a university. Did you or your husband study a field like engineering where calculus is a foundation for much more complicated math and quantitative courses, or was it just a requirement? > > I encouraged my brother to take two required composition courses at a community college because in my experience, even though he’ll be doing a lot of writing throughout his degree, the composition courses are a waste of time and not helpful to be a better writer. > > I’d never encourage him or anyone else though to take a foundation course like calculus at a community college that’s not set up to teach engineers or scientists. It’s just not a good preparation for future course work. YMMV, but the community college I went to before university had an excellent math and science department, better than some universities. A lot of engineering students in that region did their maths there before moving on to their main degree at a 4-year school, including my gentleman caller at the time. I got through pre-calculus there with one of the best math teachers I’ve ever had, and then had to struggle with learning from someone’s grad student TA when I went on to take trig at the university, which was annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/53 "2010-10-16T23:49:42Z")
There’s nothing wrong with them. They’re usually cheaper than a four year college, so if a student does their freshman year in a CC, they will save a bucket of money. They can do academic stuff like English and History that will transfer anywhere, and get it out of the way right up front. Plus, when it comes time to apply to the four year school, you’re coming in as a transfer student with a proven track record of good grades (hopefully). You’ll get priority for acceptance over the mob of incoming freshmen. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/54 "2010-10-17T00:29:41Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > And a great many people go on to a four year college. That’s what I did. I’m midway through grad school at this point, and the finest physics teacher and math teacher I’ve ever had were at my community college. The big university (physics and math depts), in comparison, was on the average high on instructor researcher credentials but very wanting on instructional and raw teaching skills. A few classes were fully handed over to TAs to do the teaching, one by a Nobel winner always on the roster as the class professor but absent every term from all of his lectures, and were a miserable failure. Bait and switch academics at its finest. If I could have attained a 4-year degree at a community college I would have done so in a heartbeat. I don’t give a rat’s ass how many research papers or journals the professor has published outside the classroom, my tuition money is supposed to be paying for me to _learn_. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/55 "2010-10-18T06:07:28Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Anytime I hear of community colleges, it’s disparagingly. The sitcom Community uses the setting of a community college as a joke. What’s wrong with them, if anything? Why did they get a bad repuation (if they do indeed have a bad reputation)? Is it just a few bad apples that gave them a bad name? I went to a CC for 2 years, and finished a BA at a 4 year. IMHO, the CC was geared to helping students more. The 4 year was more of a shrine to professors, the admin, etc… The information content was identical, however. Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![spenczar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@spenczar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spenczar)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/56 "2010-12-01T02:22:18Z")
I would highly recommend this blog post from Sean Carroll (Professor of Physics at Caltech): [“The Purpose of Harvard is Not To Educate People.”](http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/) Ritzy 4-year universities are not really about eduction - they are about research. That’s the primary job of the professors. That’s not true at community colleges, which makes a big difference. Obviously, good teaching still exists at universities, etc etc, yadda yadda. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/57 "2010-12-01T02:41:09Z")
The CC where I live teaches the same material I learned in school between 5 and 9th grade to people with HS diplomas ranging in age from 19 to 50. Some of them end up with vocational licenses to clean up after crazy people while gaining a Federal Pension out fo the view of the public. Others just fall back into the woodwork from whence they came, allowing us to continue looking down a the idea of actually aspiring to the individual and collective economic success that Appalachia has demonstrated over the years. No I didn’t grow up here. ---
**Author:** ![Ring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Ring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ring)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/58 "2010-12-01T04:37:57Z")
From an employer’s standpoint they’re a godsend. We’ve hired over 60 electrical and mechanical technicians from the local technical college, and I have no idea how we’d of otherwise filled these positions. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/59 "2010-12-01T04:44:30Z")
> [@Ring](#): > > From an employer’s standpoint they’re a godsend. We’ve hired over 60 electrical and mechanical technicians from the local technical college, and I have no idea how we’d of otherwise filled these positions. Charge your customers enough so that you can justify an in-house training program instead of asking the rest of us to tax ourselves for your benefit? How do you plan to thank us for our largesse? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/60 "2010-12-01T04:48:02Z")
Community colleges don’t have the cachet of a large university. And as has been mentioned, the most you can obtain is an associate’s degree, which basically means you’ve finished your sophomore year, and really that would not often be considered an end in itself. But for many people, a community college is all they need. Maybe they just want to brush up on a subject or take one up as a hobby but don’t need all the hassle and bureaucracy of enrolling in a four-year institute. I specifically recall a friend in Albuquerque who enrolled in one after receiving a bachelor’s degree in Texas, because he wanted to know more about electrician-type stuff and also hone his photography skills. Also, in my undergrad university, some lower-level requirements could be met by trnsferring credits over from certain designated community colleges. Apologies if all of this has been mentioned already. I’ve not looked _too_ closely at all of the posts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225.md?page=4)