# What's wrong, if anything, with community colleges? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 15, 2010, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225 "2010-10-15T09:46:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/121 "2010-12-12T00:47:44Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > DREAMS and GOALS…not race, country of origin, shape, size or gender. > > i.e. you don’t go to Wharton because your dream and goal is to help inner city disadvantaged youth or teach high school, or become a pediatrician, or be a stay at home mom, or even become Ambassador to France. There are other places where its more appropriate to develop those dreams. The diversity you get is “finance, operations, CEO, COO, Partner, or investment banker.” Actually you dobn’t, but you’d be surprised how many people do go there other than to be "“finance, operations, CEO, COO, Partner, or investment banker.”. Let me know when you have actual data 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/122 "2010-12-12T00:51:57Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > And some of those B schools are actually A schools when it comes to specific subjects. For instance, the University of Hawaii at Manoa (the main campus), one my alma maters, is a decent school but hardly in the league of Harvard or Stanford … unless you want a degree in horticulture say, as I recall it’s up around #1 or #2 in the country for that. Marine biology too, for some reason. My alma mater in West Texas was one of the best in the country for electrical engineering and animal sciences, a few other areas too IIRC. Sometimes it depends on the specific subject. I totally agree. Schools can and should have a center of excellence then can point to. It’s all the others schools and sometimes even departments in a school with one or to very good departments, that are middling at best that suck. Our median or mean level of excellence is very low compared to what it could be, outliers nothwithstanding, no matter where the excellence lies. Just the same, are we talking about excellence in the faculty wrt research and industry, or the educational acheivement levels of the students going there? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/123 "2010-12-12T00:59:59Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Just the same, are we talking about excellence in the faculty wrt research and industry, or the educational acheivement levels of the students going there? I’m not sure how much respective weight was put on either. It’s the _US News and World Report_ annual rankings I’m thinking of. However they do that. But with the plethora of tropical flora and being smack in the middle of the Pacific, I guess the U of Hawaii can’t help but be good in the two fields I mentioned. (I believe it also ranked high for electrical engineering.) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/124 "2010-12-12T03:21:44Z")
(I didn’t read the whole thread.) I already have a BA and an MA, too. I’ve been attending my local community college for the past 10 years studying things I want to study and LOVING it! EVERYTHING depends on the teacher. I started in one field that I’ve always loved but didn’t pursue when I was younger. Then I moved to another field. I took one class and learned nothing, so I took it over with a different teacher. Still not great. Then I found one of the best, most brilliant teachers I’ve ever had in all my years of schooling and took everything I could with him. I love my community college and, frankly, feel an affection that has replaced my feelings for my \*alma mater. \* Some of my fellow students are serious, some goof off and can’t get their work in on time. Kind of like the workplace. BTW, community college teachers love us “older students,” because we show up, have our work done, are aware of the world and current events, can carry on a conversation, and can make eye contact. Most of the kids have their eyes glued to their smart phones during class. Some of them will even walk out of class to take a phone call- yikes. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/125 "2010-12-12T12:25:35Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Are you certain those were not penitientiaries? They sometimes have a similar look. And similar level of academic excellence! ZING!! I kid!😃 > [@Siam Sam](#): > > Originally Posted by not\_alice > You’d probably think otherwise if you looked into the diversity of top b-schools. men and women from around the country and world in every color shape and size and goal are to be find. Maybe the only shared factor would be ambition and having not attended CC. > > And some of those B schools are actually A schools when it comes to specific subjects. She means “B” as in Business schools. Not as in second tier. > [@Dangerosa](#): > > DREAMS and GOALS…not race, country of origin, shape, size or gender. > > i.e. you don’t go to Wharton because your dream and goal is to help inner city disadvantaged youth or teach high school, or become a pediatrician, or be a stay at home mom, or even become Ambassador to France. There are other places where its more appropriate to develop those dreams. The diversity you get is “finance, operations, CEO, COO, Partner, or investment banker.” Well, first of all Wharton is specifically a BUSINESS school. So you would assume most people go there because they have an interest in business. And even still, not every student in business school is looking to be an investment banker or management consultant. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/126 "2010-12-12T13:59:25Z")
**not\_alice** , what’s your current career? ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/127 "2010-12-12T14:15:58Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Sure, there is need for all kinds of schools, but let’s not pretend that CC’s ar the same as Ivy Leagues. And you are right, most teachers and admins are not from the Ivy League. How are our primary and secondary schools doing again? > > Oh yeah, they are pushing a lot of their work off on the CCs. I didn’t say that community colleges are the same as the Ivies. I know they’re not. But having an Ivy League degree in some fields is silly unless you’re looking to get into the higher levels in those fields, which not everyone does. Would I go to an Ivy League school for a liberal arts or pure science degree? Absolutely. Would I go to an Ivy League college for an entry-level degree in nursing or education? Probably not if I can get the same education elsewhere. (Notice that I said “entry-level”. If I were talking about a graduate degree, I’d still want to go to Harvard.) That being said, community colleges are equipped to serve students at diverse skill levels more than the average public high school is. Some public schools are not able to offer advanced English or advanced math courses; those kids may go to community college as high school seniors because they can. (I did. I had 12 college credits before I graduated high school, and none of those were AP. In fact, the fact that I had taken those classes in college meant that I was ineligible to take AP classes.) Some public schools don’t have the resources to offer much in the way of tutoring for struggling students, so those students may benefit from a remedial course taken from a teacher who knows how to teach at that level, and where individual tutoring exists. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/128 "2010-12-13T03:13:08Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > She means “B” as in Business schools. Not as in second tier. D’oh! :smack: But the same often holds true, as some business schools are stronger in some areas than in others. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/129 "2010-12-13T03:17:51Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > She means “B” as in Business schools. Not as in second tier. **not\_alice** is not\_she 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/130 "2010-12-13T03:23:18Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Some public schools are not able to offer advanced English or advanced math courses; those kids may go to community college as high school seniors because they can. I agree that happens, it was a consideration for me back in the day.I snoffed even then, what, I am going to apply to both Princeton and West Windsor Community College? Shoot me. > [@](#): > > Some public schools don’t have the resources to offer much in the way of tutoring for struggling students, so those students may benefit from a remedial course taken from a teacher who knows how to teach at that level, and where individual tutoring exists. Then those teachers should be working at the high schools cleaning up there, or tutoring on their own. Instead of being a strawman as to why community colleges as a whole are wonderful academic places. I have more books in my garage than my local one has in its library, and most of the library ones are 10-11th grade level at best. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/131 "2010-12-13T03:24:29Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > **not\_alice** is not\_she 🙂 I guess that makes sense. Otherwise you would just be “alice”. > [@Siam Sam](#): > > D’oh! But the same often holds true, as some business schools are stronger in some areas than in others. Of course. Ideally you want to find a school that is strong in whatever your goal is and go there. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/132 "2010-12-13T03:45:07Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I think a CC has more distractions. You are at home, you still have your same network of friends, and you don’t live school. In the dorm I lived in, at least, everyone else being busy doing problem sets was good motivation to do mine. Plus, especially freshman year, you had a network of people doing the same classes right near you, so you could get some help with stuff hard for you and give some help for stuff you get. People at your college actually did work while in the dorms? That just seems weird. The dorm is home, where you go after your “job” of schoolwork is done. I’ll also point out that the English classes at my community college are harder than the ones at the college I attended–almost to an absurd degree, since most of the people are only there to learn how to write coherently, not how to become English majors. (Not that either is that hard by Doper standards.) And the four year degrees that are offered are pretty good. I’m not exactly sure how the difficulties of the classes compare, as I obviously didn’t take the same course at both places, but I did not feel I had less of a grasp on the subjects I took at the community college than I did away. In fact, the familiar environment of the CC made it easier to focus on learning, while at college I was more focusing on living alone. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/133 "2010-12-13T03:49:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > most of the people are only there to learn how to write coherently, Honest question - don’t they at least try to teach this level of writing composition in the high schools this CC draws from? ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/134 "2010-12-13T03:50:34Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > **not\_alice** , what’s your current career? Curmudgeon 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/135 "2010-12-13T03:53:39Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > **not\_alice** is not\_she 🙂 Double D’oh! :smack: For referring to you a s"she" and “her” elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/136 "2010-12-13T03:54:59Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Double D’oh! :smack: For referring to you a s"she" and “her” elsewhere. I didn’t notice it. I don’t lose sleep over it, I realize my sn is ambiguous that way. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/137 "2010-12-13T05:41:21Z")
Henry Ford C.C. and U. of Michigan are next door in Dearborn Michigan. . The classes from H.F.C.C. are very transferable. But that is by design since people go to Ford to save money and get easier entry. There are other community colleges that don’t transfer as well. So all community colleges are not the same either. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/138 "2010-12-13T15:59:36Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > People at your college actually did work while in the dorms? That just seems weird. The dorm is home, where you go after your “job” of schoolwork is done. It’s not weird at “prestige” private universities. Sure people also spent a lot of time doing schoolwork in the library or student center, but we also did a lot of work in our dormrooms. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/139 "2010-12-13T16:44:32Z")
Completion of an AA or AS at a Florida community college guarantees entry into one of the state universities, which is nice. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225/140 "2010-12-13T17:19:39Z")
Hmmm - I’d like to see someone from Ontario or Quebec come in and say how much an education from McGill or McMaster or York is worth compared to the less prestigious universities. Being a prairie girl it’s never really mattered where you went here. I guess Simon Fraser looks better on your resume, but you’re not getting shut out with a degree from URegina. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-if-anything-with-community-colleges/557225.md?page=8)