# What's Wrong With Black Lives Matter **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 15, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879 "2016-08-15T04:58:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/61 "2016-08-15T20:10:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How do you know the reaction is the same? Maybe it would have been worse with no footage. Ah, good point. It could always be worse, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/62 "2016-08-15T20:23:39Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Second, chant a slogan - “all lives matter” - as though anyone disagrees with it. I believe one of the co-founders of BLM disagrees with it. So do a good many Dopers. Weird, huh? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/63 "2016-08-15T20:28:42Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > First, either deny that racism exists by blaming African Americans for different problems. Do you think it’s possible to both admit that racism exists and also recognize that some problems are caused by African Americans themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/64 "2016-08-15T20:50:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you think it’s possible to both admit that racism exists and also recognize that some problems are caused by African Americans themselves? Not when one issue is deliberately used to distract from the other. If you go to the doctor with chest pains, and all he wants to do is treat some other, unrelated health problem you have, you are not being well-served as a patient. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/65 "2016-08-15T20:53:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I believe one of the co-founders of BLM disagrees with it. So do a good many Dopers. Weird, huh? Even whackadoodle Glen Beck now says that if you don’t understand the meaning of black lives matter, the problem is with you. (Paraphrasing.) ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/66 "2016-08-15T21:10:50Z")
To answer the OP’s question, there’s nothing inherently wrong with BLM, but there’s a lot of people invested into seeing it as wrong. Some within the organization takes it too far, and that’s unfortunately because it hurts the message. But the difference between someone like that girl in the video shouting to beat up white people and a police officer who shoots a black guy unjustly is that we ALL agree she’s wrong. When police kill black people, we don’t all immediately condemn it as wrong. Some people do, eventually. Some people do, with qualifications. And some people never will. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/67 "2016-08-15T21:48:56Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > When police kill black people, we don’t all immediately condemn it as wrong. That is because they are often justified. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/68 "2016-08-15T21:55:14Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > … we ALL agree she’s wrong. We might agree that she’s wrong, but her fellow #BlackLivesMatter protesters didn’t seem to think so. They seemed to be heeding her instructions. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/69 "2016-08-15T22:46:40Z")
What, if any, affiliation does anyone in that video have with BLM? How did you determine this? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/70 "2016-08-15T23:15:39Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > What, if any, affiliation does anyone in that video have with BLM? How did you determine this? I was just going off the title of the video on YouTube, but, I suppose the #BlackLivesMatter movement doesn’t really have a public membership list to check people against, and even if they did, it’s rather difficult to determine the identities of the individual members of the mob (I think that’s part of the point of being in a mob). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/71 "2016-08-15T23:36:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Shodan** : > > I believe one of the co-founders of BLM disagrees with it. So do a good many Dopers. Weird, huh? Nobody disagrees with the premise itself, that all lives matter. Most sensible people, including I imagine many leaders of the BLM movement, disagree with the chanting of the slogan “all lives matter” as a purported retort to “black lives matter”, as doing so indicates a complete misunderstanding of the entire point of BLM. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/72 "2016-08-15T23:40:42Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I was just going off the title of the video on YouTube, but, I suppose the #BlackLivesMatter movement doesn’t really have a public membership list to check people against, and even if they did, it’s rather difficult to determine the identities of the individual members of the mob (I think that’s part of the point of being in a mob). The title of the video on YouTube which came from you. I mean, you’re the one who found it for the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/73 "2016-08-15T23:54:42Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > We might agree that she’s wrong, but her fellow #BlackLivesMatter protesters didn’t seem to think so. They seemed to be heeding her instructions. Let’s say, for hypothetica purposes, that I have a disagreement with the NRA. To what extent do you think that my criticism of the NRA should be focused on the principles, actions, and intents of the NRA as an organization (such as the positions espoused by the leadership or its governing officers) as opposed to statements made a gathering of NRA members at some convention or whatnot? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/74 "2016-08-16T00:02:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Let’s say, for hypothetica purposes, that I have a disagreement with the NRA. To what extent do you think that my criticism of the NRA should be focused on the principles, actions, and intents of the NRA as an organization (such as the positions espoused by the leadership or its governing officers) as opposed to statements made a gathering of NRA members at some convention or whatnot? I suppose that hinges largely on whether your criticism is of the principles, actions, and intents of the NRA’s leadership and governing officers, or those of the hypothetical NRA members. If the NRA members had burned down a gas station or two during a riot that sprouted out of their convention, I wouldn’t be surprised to hear serious criticism leveled at the actions of the NRA members. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/75 "2016-08-16T00:23:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I was just going off the title of the video on YouTube, but, I suppose the #BlackLivesMatter movement doesn’t really have a public membership list to check people against, and even if they did, it’s rather difficult to determine the identities of the individual members of the mob (I think that’s part of the point of being in a mob). So you don’t know if any the people in are affiliated with BLM because anyone can put any title they want on a video. If you want to make the case that that BLM is a violent group, you need to actually show violence being committed by members of that group. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/76 "2016-08-16T00:25:18Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > If you want to make the case that that BLM is a violent group, you need to actually show violence being committed by members of that group. Ok, what determines group membership? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/77 "2016-08-16T00:50:16Z")
I don’t what determines membership, but the real problem is that you don’t seem to know either. However, you have no problem labeling violent people as BLM, and then using that as evidence that BLM is a violent group. [Robert Lewis Dear, Jr.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Springs_Planned_Parenthood_shooting) had a rifle, so he’s probably a member of the National Rifle Association, so the NRA is a violent group. Does that seem like a solid argument to you? If not, why not? How is that argument significantly different from the one you are advancing? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/78 "2016-08-16T01:07:33Z")
> [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#): > > Neither. > > If they cared about the number of black men killed, they’d focus their attention to black gang members. When a black person is killed by a cop, justifiably or not, it accounts for less than 1% of black homicides. > > When a black person is killed, over 90% of the time it is at the hands of another black person, usually a gang member. > > Black people, despite accounting for only 13-14% of the US population, account for half of the homicides; most committed by the 15-34 year-old male demographic (4% of the US population). > > Then there’s the high absentee father rates among the black community. > > The BLM couldn’t care less about black lives. Based on this bit of failed sophistry, the American Heart Association really does not care if the entire population dies from cancer as long as heart disease is addressed and Wounded Warrior Project has no interest in the health and survival of any veteran who did not happen to get the Purple Heart or who got one in Vietnam, Korea, or WWII. It is a stupid claim based on bad logic and an absence, (denial?), of facts. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/79 "2016-08-16T01:21:22Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > What do you mean? > > You realize 2 is still a small number, right? Its nine according to this: > **[Korryn Gaines is the 9th black woman killed by police this year. Here’s why...](https://www.vox.com/2016/8/2/12353452/korryn-gaines-baltimore-black-women-police-violence)** > > Black men aren’t the only victims of police violence. Which is nine more than in the whole history of policing in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/80 "2016-08-16T03:24:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If that was the only time and place they’d use violence to try to get their message out, I might be inclined to give them a pass (as iiandyiii seems willing to) as the actions of a few troublemakers. The problem is that the movement’s protests have been marred by violence all across the country. It’s a feature of the organization, not a bug, [according to some](http://www.salon.com/2015/04/28/baltimores_violent_protesters_are_right_smashing_police_cars_is_a_legitimate_political_strategy/). You have said that you agree with the majority of the goals of the BLM movement. Your bias insists otherwise. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879.md?page=5)