# What's Wrong With Black Lives Matter **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 15, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879 "2016-08-15T04:58:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/81 "2016-08-16T03:27:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you think it’s possible to both admit that racism exists and also recognize that some problems are caused by African Americans themselves? And use that later fact to disavow the prejudice against them, yeah, we know how you think. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/82 "2016-08-16T03:39:28Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > No, the odds are not great at all. You’re ignoring the issue. Or just asserting that it doesn’t exist. Do you read or watch the news? It isn’t some subtle trend we have to tease out of the statistics. There are blatant murders, frequently committed by police officers against mostly poor minority citizens, and they consistently go unpunished. For every one we hear about, there are plenty that we don’t. There was a police shooting in my city a couple years ago that you probably didn’t hear about, and it barely gets talked about here. A black police officer shot and killed a disabled white man in his 60s, and some people outside the area said, “OK, why aren’t all the white residents of that city rioting in the streets?” I’ll tell you why. It’s because there were multiple witnesses, mostly neighbors this man had repeatedly threatened over the years, and it was declared to be open-and-shut justified. The officer has a Hispanic name and self-identifies as such, but a casual observer would say he’s black. His father is Hispanic and his mother is black. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/83 "2016-08-16T03:42:02Z")
> [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#): > > BLM does not represent most black people. Most black people are greaful for the police, and show them great respect. > > BLM, along with white-guilt Caucasians, encompass BLM. Their sole purpose is to divert from the high and disproportionate amount of violence being perpetrated by blacks. They also wish to divert from the high absentee father rates; and the high gang rates. > > BLM are a bunch of radical thugs. BLM reminds me of PETA, in that both organizations have a great PR department and are getting their funding from somewhere. Membership in neither organization would be claimed by any self-respecting person who knew what they really are MHO. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffes_Can_t_Dance)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/84 "2016-08-16T05:04:43Z")
BLM, with the help of white-guilt Caucasians, have created a false narrative of racism, in order to divert accountability. It’s easier to blame cops, instead of facing the music. Police officers actually kill more whites than blacks. Blacks account for half of the homicides in the US, despite making up just 14% of the US population. Digging further, the overwhelming majority of those murders are committed by black males, between the ages of 15-34; which accounts for between 3-4% of the US population. So despite the grossly disproportionate amount of violent crime committed by blacks, whites are actually disproportionately killed by cops. That scary number–3-4% of the population accounting for so much violence–is what the BLM movement is trying to divert from. They’re also trying to divert from black gang rates, black-on-black crime numbers, and black absentee father statistics. The overwhelming majority of police shootings are justified. The fact that the Mike Brown incident is still mentioned among BLM as an example of police racism, furthers how desperate they are to push examples of police racism; while clearly discrediting them in the eyes of any normal thinking person. Remember, the officer in the Mike Brown situation was cleared by President Obama’s department of justice. Black eyewitnesses, along with physical evidence, irrefutably prove officer Wilson’s innocence. But again, facts don’t matter. It must be emphasized that these devious opportunists do not represent most black people, just like most white people want nothing to do with the pieces of garbage who makeup the KKK. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/85 "2016-08-16T05:38:26Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > I don’t what determines membership, but the real problem is that you don’t seem to know either. However, you have no problem labeling violent people as BLM, and then using that as evidence that BLM is a violent group. > > [Robert Lewis Dear, Jr.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Springs_Planned_Parenthood_shooting) had a rifle, so he’s probably a member of the National Rifle Association, so the NRA is a violent group. Does that seem like a solid argument to you? If not, why not? How is that argument significantly different from the one you are advancing? Well, for starters, the NRA has an actual, defined membership list, with members that pay dues. BlackLivesMatter is often described as a “movement” which has inherently-fuzzier membership criteria. It sounds to me like you’re advancing an unfalsifiable position: ‘no one knows who is a member of #BLM (or at least you’re unlikely to accept any criteria I put forward), so they can’t be a violent movement.’ I’m comfortable, given the history of violent protests in Ferguson, Baltimore, Dallas, Oakland, and now Milwaukee, with my belief that #BlackLivesMatter is a violent movement. I leave it to other readers to decide their own opinion on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/86 "2016-08-16T05:48:44Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > You have said that you agree with the majority of the goals of the BLM movement. > > Your bias insists otherwise. Specifically, #'s 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9, & 10 from the “Campaign Zero” list I provided in post #10. I can see the difference between a worthy goal and stupid, counter-productive tactics used in an attempt to achieve the goal. Do you not believe it’s possible to criticize the movement’s tactics while approving of their stated goal? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/87 "2016-08-16T06:14:03Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m comfortable, given the history of violent protests in Ferguson, Baltimore, Dallas, Oakland, and now Milwaukee, with my belief that #BlackLivesMatter is a violent movement. But in each of those cases you are labeling violent people as part of BLM, and then you are using that as evidence that BLM is violent. BLM has participated in protests, and sometimes they have stopped traffic or taken people’s microphones away, but I’d like to see some evidence that they are violent before labeling as a violent group. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/88 "2016-08-16T10:17:32Z")
tbf, I wouldn’t care what adjective a guy on a message board used. The reality is the USA is an unacceptably Apartheid state and after 200 friggin years of lynching and worse maybe folks are getting fed up. How many black people have been killed by cops since Dallas and Baton Rouge? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/89 "2016-08-16T10:34:56Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > tbf, I wouldn’t care what adjective a guy on a message board used. The reality is the USA is an unacceptably Apartheid state and after 200 friggin years of lynching and worse maybe folks are getting fed up. > > How many black people have been killed by cops since Dallas and Baton Rouge? I think this is a flippant use of the word apartheid. We have a lot of problems, and maybe **MrDibble** will correct me if I’m wrong, but I think apartheid was much, much worse than the still significant present day US discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/90 "2016-08-16T11:18:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think this is a flippant use of the word apartheid. We have a lot of problems, and maybe **MrDibble** will correct me if I’m wrong, but I think aparthiad was much, much worse than the still significant present day US discrimination. Well perhaps it would suit you t think that way - [not being part of a group with a one in three chance of going to prison in their live](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/racial-disparities-criminal-justice_n_4045144.html) Or a live expectancy 10 years less than white people, as in southern States. Or communities where 35% of adult black males are absent due to premature death or incarceration. Or all the hundreds of other statistics that demonstrate utterly comprehensive, cultural, social, legal, institutional racism ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/91 "2016-08-16T12:08:24Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Well perhaps it would suit you t think that way - [not being part of a group with a one in three chance of going to prison in their live](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/racial-disparities-criminal-justice_n_4045144.html) > > Or a live expectancy 10 years less than white people, as in southern States. > > Or communities where 35% of adult black males are absent due to premature death or incarceration. > > Or all the hundreds of other statistics that demonstrate utterly comprehensive, cultural, social, legal, institutional racism I agree that these are enormous problems and legacies of the incredible past and present influence of white supremacy in the USA – and apartheid was still much worse. Maybe **MrDibble** will correct me if I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/92 "2016-08-16T12:56:30Z")
Worse, but not “much” worse, actually. For instance, [the apartheid junta never incarcerated Blacks at the rate the US currently does.](http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/dec/11/nicholas-kristof/kristof-us-imprisons-blacks-rates-higher-south-afr/) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/93 "2016-08-16T13:04:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Worse, but not “much” worse, actually. For instance, [the apartheid junta never incarcerated Blacks at the rate the US currently does.](http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/dec/11/nicholas-kristof/kristof-us-imprisons-blacks-rates-higher-south-afr/) Thanks for the info! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/94 "2016-08-16T13:07:22Z")
Don’t get me wrong, it was worse than current US race relations in _a lot_ of ways. But functionally not much worse than the Jim Crow-era US and certainly _never_ as bad as slavery US (South African blacks are not the descendants of slaves.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/95 "2016-08-16T13:13:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Don’t get me wrong, it was worse than current US race relations in _a lot_ of ways. But functionally not much worse than the Jim Crow-era US and certainly _never_ as bad as slavery US (South African blacks are not the descendants of slaves.) From my understanding of apartheid, I agree with all this. The Jim Crow South was effectively an apartheid society. Remnants of this remain, but I objected to the use of “apartheid” for modern oppression and discrimination in the US because I thought it trivialized the real Apartheid. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/96 "2016-08-16T13:39:45Z")
It is a little difficult to discuss because there is the meme, slogan, hashtag and organization and members of the organization. They aren’t perfect subsets or consistent. A little trite but a recent meme said that if you don’t like “black lives matter” because it doesn’t say “all lives matter” but you are okay with “blue lives matter”, perhaps your issue is with the the color. That was a post-RNC item. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/97 "2016-08-16T13:53:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **MrDibble** > Worse, but not “much” worse, actually. For instance, the apartheid junta never incarcerated Blacks at the rate the US currently does. I think that’s a poor metric anyway, because aside from the race issue, the US just has a problem with incarcerating a huge number of the population period, regardless of race. I mean for god’s sake we have more people in prison than China! ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/98 "2016-08-16T14:05:12Z")
> [@pool](#): > > I mean for god’s sake we have more people in prison than China! I wonder what life in a Chinese prison is like compared to life in a US prison? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/99 "2016-08-16T14:13:41Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > I wonder what life in a Chinese prison is like compared to life in a US prison? Have you ever been in a Turkish prison? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/100 "2016-08-16T14:52:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Have you ever been in a Turkish prison? I’ve had, and enjoyed, both Turkish taffy and Turkish towels. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879.md?page=6)