# What's Wrong With Black Lives Matter **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 15, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879 "2016-08-15T04:58:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/161 "2016-08-17T19:58:51Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > He wasn’t a conservative, he was a sock. Why can’t he be both, like the late Earl Warren? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/162 "2016-08-17T19:59:13Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > When you solve the problem get back to me. I’ll vote you prez. > > In the meantime, asking stupid little rhetorical questions gets us exactly where we are. “Exactly where we are” appears to be some mythical world in which every black neighborhood has continuous crime and no black people are ever imprisoned for first drug offenses. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/163 "2016-08-17T20:01:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > “Exactly where we are” appears to be some mythical world in which every black neighborhood has continuous crime and no black people are ever imprisoned for first drug offenses. How is it that you’ve managed this far on the Dope by manufacturing your own little fictional world? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/164 "2016-08-17T20:06:52Z")
That’s enough, levdrakon. Keep it civil. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/165 "2016-08-17T20:07:28Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/166 "2016-08-17T20:23:22Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Why can’t he be both, like the late Earl Warren? Ignorance fought! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/167 "2016-08-17T20:31:46Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I’m pretty sure no black person has EVER been imprisoned with an otherwise clean record and the first time they ever, ever, ever committed a crime was possessing a little crack. You’re [pretty wrong](http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2015/07/15/from-a-first-arrest-to-a-life-sentence/). Oh, wait, is the “committed a crime” how you’re going to weasel out of this? “I said never committed a crime, not never arrested”, is that going to be the tack? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/168 "2016-08-17T20:31:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > “Exactly where we are” appears to be some mythical world in which every black neighborhood has continuous crime and no black people are ever imprisoned for first drug offenses. When did I say “every” black neighborhood is anything? I can’t answer to things that “appear to be” and are “mythical.” If you don’t understand something, by all means ask. I try not to delve in “mythical” outside of Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/169 "2016-08-17T20:32:31Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > How is it that you’ve managed this far on the Dope by manufacturing your own little fictional world? In your opinion, is what you’re advocating for different from straightforward racism? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/170 "2016-08-17T20:35:06Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > When did I say “every” black neighborhood is anything? I can’t answer to things that “appear to be” and are “mythical.” > > If you don’t understand something, by all means ask. I try not to delve in “mythical” outside of Cafe Society. Post 155. You said you can’t live near a black neighborhood without being a constant victim of crime. Did you not mean that literally? ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/171 "2016-08-17T21:07:02Z")
> [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#): > > White people are blackmailed with the label of a racist if they dare oppose the idea that institutional racism is somehow responsible for the numerous problems within the black community. It’s an effective tactic. But at some point, the growing pile of black children being killed has got to outweigh such blackmail. > > I live on the south side of Chicago. Yes, white people still live here. Not too far from me, a little boy named Tyshawn Lee, 9, was lured from the park he was so innocently playing in, into an alley, where he was murdered, execution style, by a gang member. This little boy was 9-years-old! 9!!! A gang member targeted him because Tyshawn’s father was also in a gang; retaliation of some sort. > > BLM is no where to be seen. Neither are any of the other groups. Outrage has been relegated to a few peeps; nothing substantive. Why? Because it would expose the truth. > > There is a problem in the black community. Black males, aged 14-35ish are disproportionately violent; are members of gangs disproportionately; are literally fighting for their lives in places like Chicago. > > This behavior is not inherent. The young man who killed Tyshawn, from birth, could have been a doctor as easily as he became a gang member. I believe that in my heart. But his culture swallowed him whole. > > In this culture, black women are fighters; they fight for their children on a daily basis. But one parent can not be two, especially when she has to work in order to support her family. The absence of the black father in many families is devastating. > > Perspective: The majority of black fathers are not of the absentee kind. The majority are thoroughly involved with their children. But the minority who are absentee fathers is loud enough, that it’s engulfing a culture. > Nothing will change until we stop pandering. I am sick and tired of feeling sadness for the Tyshawn Lee’s of the world. Fundamentally, people are all the same. The labels we ascribe to ourselves, to identify one person against another, are illusions: products of our imagination. Which is not to say they’re unimportant. How many people have died for one country, when they would have died for the other side, but for an accident of birth? BLM didn’t mourn Tyshawn, because he wasn’t killed by the right type of person. Similarly, they didn’t protest [David Kassick’s death](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jP-xXO1vuaw), because although he was shot by the right type of person, he wasn’t the right type of person himself. Maybe it’s human nature: maybe there must be a “them,” in order for there to be an “us”. And we all know how important it is to be included. Edited to add: I see you’ve been banned. I’m surprised it hasn’t happened to me yet. I expect it will happen soon. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/172 "2016-08-17T21:13:06Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Fundamentally, people are all the same. The labels we ascribe to ourselves, to identify one person against another, are illusions: products of our imagination. Which is not to say they’re unimportant. How many people have died for one country, when they would have died for the other side, but for an accident of birth? > > BLM didn’t mourn Tyshawn, because he wasn’t killed by the right type of person. Similarly, they didn’t protest [David Kassick’s death](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jP-xXO1vuaw), because although he was shot by the right type of person, he wasn’t the right type of person himself. > > Maybe it’s human nature: maybe there must be a “them,” in order for there to be an “us”. And we all know how important it is to be included. > > Edited to add: I see you’ve been banned. I’m surprised it hasn’t happened to me yet. I expect it will happen soon. BLM as a movement exists to highlight and oppose law enforcement mistreatment of minorities. Why is that objectionable to anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/173 "2016-08-17T21:15:31Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Fundamentally, people are all the same. The labels we ascribe to ourselves, to identify one person against another, are illusions: products of our imagination. Which is not to say they’re unimportant. How many people have died for one country, when they would have died for the other side, but for an accident of birth? > > BLM didn’t mourn Tyshawn, because he wasn’t killed by the right type of person. Similarly, they didn’t protest [David Kassick’s death](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jP-xXO1vuaw), because although he was shot by the right type of person, he wasn’t the right type of person himself. > > Maybe it’s human nature: maybe there must be a “them,” in order for there to be an “us”. And we all know how important it is to be included. > > Edited to add: I see you’ve been banned. I’m surprised it hasn’t happened to me yet. I expect it will happen soon. Is it your opinion that if you care about innocent black people getting killed by police, then you must therefore not care about innocent (I assume) white people being killed by police? Because if so, that’s a pretty stupid opinion. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/174 "2016-08-17T21:19:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If you are talking about crack vs. cocaine, this is wrong. Crack was not more harshly sentenced than cocaine because of racism, but because crack is more [harmful](http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm) and more [addictive](https://www.justice.gov/archive/olp/pdf/crack_powder2002.pdf) (pdf). If you are talking about something else, then you will need to produce a cite. OK. A report assessing the overall harm caused by the drugs, (with alcohol far ahead of each), that includes in its assessment the harm from imprisonment and other related issues. Contrast that the to the actual medical assessments of the drugs themselves that make no such claim. Then a government report explaining why it considers the need to more harshly criminalize one drug over the other, thus perpetuating the funding to support existing programs. Again, contrasted against the actual medical examinations provided by subsequent posters. The laws were not initially passed for racist reasons. However, once the hysteria of the first couple of years passed and more sober assessments showed that crack was not instantly addicting, the laws were left in place for nearly twenty years while evidence mounted that they were unfair. That is institutional racism. And even if some discrepancies in harm can be demonstrated, that would not justify the fact that law enforcement more heavily targets black communities when white use of powder is actually higher than black use of crack. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/175 "2016-08-17T21:29:05Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Edited to add: I see you’ve been banned. I’m surprised it hasn’t happened to me yet. I expect it will happen soon. Did you see what he was banned for? Unless you plan to say “fuck off” in GD, I’m afraid that your martyrdom will have to wait. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/176 "2016-08-17T21:41:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Post 155. You said you can’t live near a black neighborhood without being a constant victim of crime. Did you not mean that literally? Cite that I said that. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/177 "2016-08-17T21:43:34Z")
😕 > [@levdrakon](#): > > I care that I can’t live near a black neighborhood without being a constant victim of crime and being expected to pretend what is, isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/178 "2016-08-17T21:55:40Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > 😕 Selective quoting disregarding the meaning of the paragraph it belongs to. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/179 "2016-08-17T21:58:14Z")
So make that case; don’t deny that you said what you said. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879/180 "2016-08-17T21:58:56Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Selective quoting disregarding the meaning of the paragraph it belongs to. How does the rest of the paragraph change the meaning of that sentence? Are you saying that you did not mean the words that you used? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-black-lives-matter/762879.md?page=10)