# What's wrong with Democrats? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 10, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842 "2021-12-10T17:49:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/21 "2021-12-11T15:00:17Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I think the underlying problem is that D voters need to be cajoled to go the polls more than R voters. They need get-out-the-vote drives, carpools, snacks in the voting line, at home voting, etc. R voters seem to show up no matter what. I often think that R’s deserve to be in power because their voters are more engaged in the process. It might be true that the country leans more D, but those voters barely show up when it counts and are apathetic at other times. If the 2020 election wasn’t enough for a total D landslide in the executive and legislative branches, then it’s a good indication that there either aren’t enough actual D supporters or the supporters don’t care enough to actually vote. Perhaps. And perhaps there is a whole “vast right wing conspiracy” erecting barriers to make voting harder, and crafting messages to convince them that their votes don’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2021, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/22 "2021-12-11T16:01:35Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > Doesn’t want to think critical I can’t fucking believe I said that and not “think critically”. Anyway, another thing, related to points in my initial post about “rules of civility”, is that the GOP has, literally, no limits to how far beyond conventional rules of civility they’re willing to go. And if there’s a critical mass with that mindset, then how can that be effectively fought? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2021, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/23 "2021-12-11T22:38:09Z")
Not always critical thinking. The rising star in the GOP, MTG. Thinks that Cancer is the same as COVID. Or at least thinks that cancer is contagious. So critical thinking is WAY out of reach here. As is any knowledge at ALL. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2021, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/24 "2021-12-12T02:44:02Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > the GOP has, literally, no limits to how far beyond conventional rules of civility they’re willing to go. We should treat the opposition as human beings with different ideas about how to run the country. Republicans: “Sure, but… what if we don’t?” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/25 "2021-12-12T15:51:54Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Republicans: “Sure, but… what if we don’t?” Is that an allusion to this: > **[But What If We Didn’t](https://whatever.scalzi.com/2021/01/07/but-what-if-we-didnt/)** > > I have a theory about the Republican Party, and it is that around the time Newt Gingrich became the head of its brain trust, the GOP added a fourth functioning principle to its previous tripod of &… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/26 "2021-12-12T17:11:44Z")
Yes indeed, thanks for the link. I think this is a powerful essay. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2021, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/27 "2021-12-12T19:03:46Z")
Ah, now I get your reference. I just read the article - bloody scary. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2021, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/28 "2021-12-12T20:31:11Z")
Somewhere just recently (like, within the last week) I saw an op-ed updating that theme: Re: The Jan. 6 committee’s subpoenas compelling a variety of Trump insiders to appear. “But what if we didn’t?” ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2021, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/29 "2021-12-12T20:56:40Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > They are also willing to cross legal and moral lines (literally threatening the lives of non-believers and their families, not to mention January 6) where Dems won’t. The apathy of Democrats could very well lead to the end of democracy. > [@Napier](#): > > And, though I’m not happy about it, I guess I’d rather see us lose what’s left of our democracy with one party remaining non-reprehensible, as opposed to having both parties become reprehensible, which would also be a loss of our democracy. The above pretty much encapsulates my thinking on this mess. MikeF may not have meant to imply that Democrats need to start crossing legal and moral lines. But regardless I can’t sign on to becoming part of the “still reprehensible, but-slightly-less-reprehensible” faction. I’d rather go down with some self-respect than compete in the gutter and maybe still lose because I’m not as good at being a morally bankrupt shitheel. Or to use a post-9/11 analogy that came up back in the day - I’m very much in the I’d-rather-suffer-the-terrorist’s-bombs-than-torture-someone-in-the-hopes-of-getting-info-to-prevent-a-bombing camp. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2021, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/30 "2021-12-12T23:05:52Z")
[Maybe we need to update Reagan’s “Bear” ad](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NpwdcmjBgNA) ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/31 "2021-12-13T01:29:43Z")
If we resist, the Fascists might make us _walk_ to the camps, rather than providing rail cars. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/32 "2021-12-13T05:21:41Z")
[Been there, done that.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/33 "2021-12-13T05:48:19Z")
Frankly, I think Democrats need to take a page out of the Jimmy Johnson playbook: Tell your opponent that you’re going to beat them, watch them splutter in rage, then beat them anyway. Take guns, for instance. So many right-wing gun owners say “If the Feds try to take my guns, it means…(violence.)” But if the ATF actually **did** show up with dozens of heavily armed agents to snatch their guns, they’d…have to meekly give them up. Why? 'Cause dozens of guns \> 1 gun. Imagine if Gretchen Whitmer had called out those gun-toting folks on the Michigan Capitol steps on their bluff. She could have loudly proclaimed, _“None of you have the GUTS to shoot me. All too cowardly to pull the trigger…come on, not a single one of you brave enough?”_ and grinned with crossed arms …and the militia men would have had no choice but to splutter in rage, fingers twitching on the triggers, fists clenched…knowing that opening fire = prison. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/34 "2021-12-13T06:29:05Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Take guns, for instance. So many right-wing gun owners say “If the Feds try to take my guns, it means…(violence.)” But if the ATF actually **did** show up with dozens of heavily armed agents to snatch their guns, they’d…have to meekly give them up. Why? 'Cause dozens of guns \> 1 gun. Okay. And how many dozens of guns would they collect before word spread and at the next house they’re met with, “Guns? What guns? I don’t have any guns. You’ve got a warrant? Sure! Come on in and have a look around. Would you lovely ladies/gentlemen like a nice cold glass of sweet tea?” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/35 "2021-12-13T15:42:58Z")
The “what if we didn’t” essay was one of the most spot-on essays I’ve read in ages. It’s quite obvious that the Republicans seek to end democracy and establish one party authoritarian rule. The question is- what can Democrats do about it? Here’s my two cents: Drop the BBB discussion. Voters don’t give a flying fuck in a rolling doughnut hole about policy. Sure, they’ll take the child tax credits and reducing prescription costs, but it isn’t going to win any votes. The Republicans are running on zero issues, there isn’t a single bit of legislation to improve American lives that they’re going to propose or support. Quit acting like campaigns are run on ideas, that ship sailed long ago and it’s never coming back to port. Instead, get all 50 Democratic Senators over to the White House and have them promise not to leave until they hammer out a voting rights bill that not only will they vote for but will carve out an exception to the filibuster for. If they have to set up cots in the East Room, so be it. Then fucking get the bill passed. The House will approve anything the Senate comes up with. BBB can wait, voting rights cannot. Then in 2022, campaign on one issue and one issue only- democracy. Figure out which Senate, Congressional, and state seats are in play and go after them hard. Get the voters to understand that if they don’t use their vote in 2022 to defend democracy, they will never have a vote that means anything again. The very future of the nation is at stake, it’s time we acted like it. There is still time to defeat the thugs without becoming thugs ourselves. But 2022 and 2024 are the last chances to do so. Fighting among ourselves about policy details that the people don’t give a shit about is not going to save democracy. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/36 "2021-12-13T16:42:04Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > “None of you have the GUTS to shoot me With all respect to Velocity but what if one, or a few of them, did have the guts? I would be willing to bet that if, in 2014, hundreds or thousands (however many) of thugs threatened to storm the Capitol, we would probably think that “none of you have the guts to storm the Capitol” Sadly, I now believe that anything goes and I have no idea how to combat it while playing by the rules (but I don’t think that we should play outside the rules either; I fear that it may be a no-win scenario). ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/37 "2021-12-13T17:33:46Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Imagine if Gretchen Whitmer had called out those gun-toting folks on the Michigan Capitol steps on their bluff. She could have loudly proclaimed, _“None of you have the GUTS to shoot me. All too cowardly to pull the trigger…come on, not a single one of you brave enough?”_ and grinned with crossed arms …and the militia men would have had no choice but to splutter in rage, fingers twitching on the triggers, fists clenched…knowing that opening fire = prison. And then someone _might_ be going to jail as she heads towards the morgue. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/38 "2021-12-13T17:47:58Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And then someone _might_ be going to jail as she heads towards the morgue. “She challenged me, I had to shoot her” And a slap on the wrist like the insurectionists. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/39 "2021-12-13T17:57:53Z")
I think it would be foolish to ask a crowd of heavily armed nutjobs if they have the guts to pull the trigger. All it takes is one of those lunkheads to be just far enough over the edge to do it. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842/40 "2021-12-14T03:32:17Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Drop the BBB discussion. Voters don’t give a flying fuck in a rolling doughnut hole about policy. Sure, they’ll take the child tax credits and reducing prescription costs, but it isn’t going to win any votes. This I really disagree with. I think think “economic insecurity” is a factor in the rise of authoritarianism in America. I don’t necessarily think voters are thinking about which party helped them with their childcare bills at which point in time, but just in general and especially over the long-term, people care about democracy and responsible government when they feel like it’s having a positive impact on their lives. A lot of people never recovered from the recession in 2008, got schelacked again with covid and have no idea what the future holds. If we want them to wait in line to vote for hours to vote to protect democracy, they need to believe that democracy can have a meaningful impact on them, their families and their communities. I think it’s extremely difficult for a country to legitimately have a majority fascist population. It’s a lot easier for a 20-30% population of fascists to overwhelm a country of people who don’t care. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-democrats/955842.md?page=3)