# What's wrong with "fuck"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 21, 2002, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181 "2002-12-21T04:54:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Mermaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@The\_Mermaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mermaid)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/21 "2002-12-21T18:39:18Z")
I wish to state emphatically that IMHO there is absolutely nothing wrong with fuck. I’ll take a big helping please. Make that two scoops. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/22 "2002-12-21T21:04:36Z")
Let’s suppose Little Honey said the word fuck, she would be told to watch her mouth. Let’s suppose Little Honey said the the word nigger, she would be sent to her room and grounded for a week. The fact that some people cannot complete a full sentence without using fuck several times, kind of diminishes the shock value of the word. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/23 "2002-12-21T23:28:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Remember if there’s no stigma attatched to ‘fuck’ then you have to find something else to shout when you bang your elbow. We appear to need offensive words. Says who? If I bang my elbow, I might say “fuck,” I might say “damn it,” or I might just wince, suck in my breath, and not say anything at all. Shouting a word with stigma attached to it does not make my elbow hurt any less than if I’d chosen a more acceptable word. ---
**Author:** ![verybdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/49beb7/32.png) [@verybdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/verybdog)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/24 "2002-12-22T02:04:26Z")
George Carlin’s piece is killing me! Haven’t laughed this hard for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![verybdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/49beb7/32.png) [@verybdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/verybdog)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/25 "2002-12-22T02:18:32Z")
OP: there’s nothing wrong with the word. It’s just not acceptable in the cycle of educated elites. High class people don’t say lowly words such as this one. ---
**Author:** ![imthjckaz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/imthjckaz/32/3223_2.png) [@imthjckaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imthjckaz)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/26 "2002-12-22T04:40:35Z")
Nothing wrong with fuck. Say it all the time. Do it all the time. But I’d rather do it, than say it. But that’s just me, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/27 "2002-12-22T04:41:29Z")
verybdog, I’ve heard quite a bit of wonderfully colorful swearing from the educated elites that I know. What’s that old saying 'bout profanity being the last refuge of the inarticulate? I don’t belive it applies. Swearing makes language much more verstitle and entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/28 "2002-12-22T05:00:36Z")
**Lissa** - me too! These are good old English words, of ancient origin. > [@](#): > > _From [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com)_ > **Middle English, attested in pseudo-Latin fuccant, (they) fuck, deciphered from gxddbov. > Word History: The obscenity fuck is a very old word and has been considered shocking from the first, though it is seen in print much more often now than in the past. Its first known occurrence, in code because of its unacceptability, is in a poem composed in a mixture of Latin and English sometime before 1500. The poem, which satirizes the Carmelite friars of Cambridge, England, takes its title, “Flen flyys,” from the first words of its opening line, “Flen, flyys, and freris,” that is, “fleas, flies, and friars.” The line that contains fuck reads “Non sunt in coeli, quia gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk.”** Don’t want to cut and paste too much so click [**here**](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fuck) for the rest of the info. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/29 "2002-12-22T06:55:22Z")
banning the word is stupid as fuck ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/30 "2002-12-22T07:03:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by neutron star \* > \*\* > You can take any definition of the word “fuck,” put it into a more socially palatable vernacular, and it will cease to lose its power to offend (e.g. “What the **heck** ,” “I want to **have sex with** that woman,” “You made a big **stinking** mess.”). You can’t take a racial slur and do the same thing. If you turn “nigger” into “coon,” it’s still just as offensive. \*\* No, but if you turn “nigger” into “black person” or “African-American”, even though the two words mean the same thing. Why? Because both “nigger” and “fuck” have connotations that “black person” and “have sex with” do not. They are offensive to most people. This isn’t due to the intrinsic nature of either word…it’s because both words have gained this connotation by regularly being used offensively. If, as Soup Nazi suggests, the word “sife” became seen as offensive, and was continuously used with the intention to offend people, it would be as offensive as the word “fuck” is now. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/31 "2002-12-22T07:25:17Z")
Yes, but “nigger” is a disparaging term for a black person. By its very definition, it’s meant as an insult. “African-American” doesn’t compare. “Fuck,” OTOH, can mean a host of things. Some of those things are offensive, some not. It’s all about the context the word is used in. “Fuck you, you piece of shit” is far more offensive than “I can’t start the fucking car.” If you restricted every word that could be used in an offensive way, we’d have a pretty boring (and incomplete) language. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/32 "2002-12-22T17:17:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by neutron star \* > \*\*Yes, but “nigger” is a disparaging term for a black person. By its very definition, it’s meant as an insult. “African-American” doesn’t compare. \*\* It wasn’t invented with that purpose. It’s become disparaging because it’s used in a disparaging way. Likewise, while “Fuck you” is more offensive than “I locked my fucking keys in the car”, most people consider both sentences offensive. For whatever reason, the word has become unacceptable to use in polite conversation in any context. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/33 "2002-12-22T17:27:00Z")
I find it interesting how some words gain offensive qualities and others don’t, and at different levels. For example, there was pit thread maybe a few months ago, about some woman who was either a child killer or abuser or something. The usual posts were made, “I hope someone fucking kills her slowly!” and such things. Someone then wrote something like “Yeah, I wish someone would beat that cunt to death with basball bat!” Someone actually took offense at the use of the word ‘cunt’!!! You can threaten to torture a person to death, but don’t use the C word! That’s not nice! Hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Francesca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9fc348/32.png) [@Francesca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francesca)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/34 "2002-12-22T19:40:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Funny. Just this week my grandson was dicussing the possible origins of the word “fuck.” He is eleven. It was handled without bashfulness or giggling. He said that he thinks the word has something to do with plucking a bow string with the middle finger. I think that maybe that has more to do with the origin of shooting birds than the origin of “fuck.” I think your grandson has his swearing confused 🙂 He might be thinking of the origin of the “two fingered salute” - a popular swearing gesture in the UK (but not in the US IIRC). Think of a V-sign, but with the hand facing inwards rather than outwards. This gesture supposedly originated during a war with the French - you need two fingers to fire a bow properly and either the British or the French (I can’t remember which, I’m afraid) had the idea of cutting off one of the fingers of the enemies when they caught them, so that they would not be able to fight again (hey, it’s better than just killing them). The two-fingered salute was a kind of “Look I’ve got two fingers! Yah boo sucks to you!” gesture. Nowadays, it just means “Up yours!” I’m very fond of the two-fingered salute and try to use it as often as possible, mainly for comedy value. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/35 "2002-12-22T21:28:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by istara \* > \*\ ***Lissa** - me too! These are good old English words, of ancient origin. > Don’t want to cut and paste too much so click [**here**](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fuck) for the rest of the info. \*\* [More historical stuff](http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~crumey/william_dunbar.html) of interest. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/36 "2002-12-23T07:27:09Z")
> [@](#): > > It wasn’t invented with that purpose. It’s become disparaging because it’s used in a disparaging way. It wasn’t? According to [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com): > [@](#): > > nig·ger ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ngr) > n. Offensive Slang > > ## Used as a disparaging term for a Black person: “You can only be destroyed by believing that you really are what the white world calls a nigger” (James Baldwin). Used as a disparaging term for a member of any dark-skinned people. Used as a disparaging term for a member of any socially, economically, or politically deprived group of people: “Gun owners are the new niggers… of society” (John Aquilino). > > [Alteration of dialectal neger, black person, from French nègre, from Spanish negro. See Negro.] So it’s an alteration of a non-offensive word to make it offensive. I see no evidence that “nigger” was ever used to indicate anything other than derision. > [@](#): > > Likewise, while “Fuck you” is more offensive than “I locked my fucking keys in the car”, most people consider both sentences offensive. Who are “most people?” Little old ladies? Almost everyone I know (I’m 24) uses the word “fuck” in general conversation. The only time we don’t is when we’re around much older people who we think would be offended. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/37 "2002-12-23T08:29:05Z")
Oh for heaven’s sake. :rolleyes: [Cecil covered this whole bow shooting thing already.](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980904.html) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/38 "2002-12-23T14:10:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by neutron star \* > \*\*So it’s an alteration of a non-offensive word to make it offensive. I see no evidence that “nigger” was ever used to indicate anything other than derision. \*\* Well, here, from about 3/4 of the way down the page: [http://www.wordorigins.org/wordorn.htm](http://www.wordorigins.org/wordorn.htm) > [@](#): > > The offensiveness of the term has increased over time, especially in the 20th century. Two 16th century quotes that are commonly cited in dictionaries are from scholarly tracts. A 1700 quote by judge Samuel Sewall uses the term in a denunciation of slavery. Gradually, however, polite discourse increasingly used the term negro (which dates to at least 1555) and nigger became relegated to the vulgar tongue, increasing in offensiveness over the centuries. That fits with other things I’ve read (which I don’t have a cite for now, unfortunatley), which said that, in the middle of the 19th century, it was seen as vulgar and a mark of the uneducated, but not offensive in itself. Maybe what we’re seeing with “fuck” is that it’s going the other way, and that it’s going to stop being considered offensive. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/39 "2002-12-24T07:07:10Z")
Interesting link, **CaptainAmazing**. Thanks. > [@](#): > > Maybe what we’re seeing with “fuck” is that it’s going the other way, and that it’s going to stop being considered offensive. You’re probably right. I just wish MTV and radio would wise up to it so they stop butchering great songs with long gaps of silence and garbled words. ---
**Author:** ![Francesca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9fc348/32.png) [@Francesca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francesca)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181/40 "2002-12-24T08:29:36Z")
**Alan Smithee** - it’s possible to dispell ignorance without the rolleyes and snarky comment, thus avoiding being a condescending arse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-fuck/144181.md?page=3)