# What's wrong with gambling??? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861 "2003-04-02T02:18:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![shep\_proudfoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90db22/32.png) [@shep\_proudfoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shep_proudfoot)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/1 "2003-04-02T02:18:27Z")
I would like to know what is the Christian beef about gambling? I was raised in a secular “unchurched” home, and although my parents went to Las Vegas once a year perhaps, they were not gamblers per se. When I was a child, I gambled a little, making bets, piching pennies, things like that. My parents and I sometimes went to a bluegrass show ran by mainly rednecks (I’m from Memphis) and us kids were pitching pennies for fun. Of course some Baptist/Pentecostal shut us down. As an adult, I worked in casinos in Tunica, Mississippi for about five years. Casino gambling is a ripoff, especially roulette. The odds are always in the house’s favor. Besides the Romans playing dice for Jesus’ robe, I don’t see any other negative aspects to gambling. So why? SP ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/2 "2003-04-02T04:15:23Z")
> [@](#): > > As an adult, I worked in casinos in Tunica, Mississippi for about five years. Casino gambling is a ripoff, especially roulette. The odds are always in the house’s favor. You answered your own question? Only the very disciplined gamblers win, and they are a scare breed. The rest of us either play for fun knowing we will lose, or kid ourselves into thinking we can win while losing the grocery money. ---
**Author:** ![DreadCthulhu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DreadCthulhu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DreadCthulhu)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/3 "2003-04-02T06:25:03Z")
Well, some churches find gambling wrong because it competes with their bingo nights. 🙂 Seriously, gambling is addictive for some people, and can ruin families with people who can’t control how much they spend, and blow the rent money, which is one reason why it is banned in many places. Of course, I don’t think we should protect people from themselves, and I don’t mind gambling at all. ---
**Author:** ![j.c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@j.c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j.c)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/4 "2003-04-02T06:36:35Z")
What’s wrong with gambling? I so rarely win! From a religious standpoint, I’m assuming the general idea is that, like so many vices, it encourages base instincts. Or maybe it’s just because playing the slots is an easy way to look stupid, and the church would prefer members not look like dopes in public. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/5 "2003-04-02T08:02:44Z")
Gambling is (or can become) a form of addiction, something that enslaves and controls the life of the addict. Many gamblers will never become addicted, and can enjoy the “fun” of gambling, but as the existance of [Gamblers Anonymous](http://www.gamblersanonymous.org/) testifies, for some people, it goes well beyond that. Christianity is, at its root, about freedom - freedom from sin (and hence access to God/heaven), but also freedom from things that make life on this earth painful and tie us down. > [@](#): > > [Galatians 5 v 1](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=GAL+5:1&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) - It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. This, for me, is the prime reason (there are others, the close relationship between gambling, drink and prostitution for example) for avoiding (or being very careful about my approach to) gambling - I do not want to become its slave. The danger of course is that you never notice the beginnings of any addiction - as the smoker will claim to be able to “give up any time I want to”, gamblers will deny that it has a hold over them, but the stories of people throwing away thier life savings do exist ([Two](http://www.hinduonnet.com/folio/fo0102/01020320.htm) [examples](http://www.800gambler.org/Testimony_gamember.htm)). The [National Gambling Impact Study Commission Report](http://www.casino-gambling-reports.com/GamblingStudy/index.htm) sits on the fence over the overall benefit/damage of gambling in the USA, but acknowleges the negative social impact that it has: > [@](#): > > (From page 27 of the conclusion, emphasis mine) > The central issue is whether the net increases in income and well-being are worth the _acknowledged social costs of gambling_. After much testimony and a review of the existing economic literature, the Commission has concluded that it is currently impossible to obtain even a rough approximation of a true cost-benefit calculation concerning the economic impact of legalized gambling. Grim ---
**Author:** ![nogginhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5e9695/32.png) [@nogginhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nogginhead)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/6 "2003-04-02T13:04:38Z")
Folks, these are all social arguments, not religious arguments. I’m sure we all appreciate the efforts of the various churches to make this a better world to live in, but those of us on the outside often get the impression that there is a religious (i.e. theological) motive for the stand a church takes. I’m not sure this is what the OP intended, but is there a specific proibition against gambling that’s based on biblical interpretation? On other theological (not social) grounds? Nog ---
**Author:** ![dil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f04885/32.png) [@dil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dil)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/7 "2003-04-02T16:50:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nogginhead \* > \*\*I’m not sure this is what the OP intended, but is there a specific proibition against gambling that’s based on biblical interpretation? On other theological (not social) grounds? > > Nog \*\* Nope! My church freely admits that there is nothing in the Bible condemning gambling (or drinking for that matter). However, the church doesn’t “encourage” these activities as they can lead to addictive behavior. But among adults who have control over their own actions, there is nothing wrong with either activity, and a good church will support this stance. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/8 "2003-04-02T16:59:38Z")
> [@](#): > > …and a good church will support this stance. …depending, of course, on your definition of a “good church”. Some people like the idea of an “upstanding community”, I gather. I think that **grimpixie** probably has the right of it. ---
**Author:** ![MSU\_1978](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@MSU\_1978](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MSU_1978)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/9 "2003-04-02T17:13:38Z")
grimpixie has it right. Gambling is like alcohol: in most people’s hands there is no problem. However, the compulsive gambler is a problem and often their spouses and children suffer as a result. Generally the negative social impacts of gambling outweigh any economic benefits of casinos. ---
**Author:** ![Doctordec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Doctordec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctordec)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/10 "2003-04-03T14:22:15Z")
A compulsive gambler is only a problem if he/she loses. A compulsive gambler that wins a lot of money is treated as something of a celebrity. Unlike drugs and alcohol, gambling can (rarely, but it happens) have a wonderful outcome from the behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/11 "2003-04-03T19:31:39Z")
Unless you’re Catholic-then every night is bingo night. But seriously, I think it could also be about “games of chance”, relying on “luck” instead of prayer? ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/12 "2003-04-03T19:53:44Z")
I have heard religious people criticise gambling based on the following: (a) The gambler is trying to get something without working for it, which is essentially attempting to steal. (b) The odds are always in the house’s favor, so the people gambling will always (in the long run) lose. So the house is taking money unfairly, which is stealing. © The Roman soldiers cast lots for the possession of J.C.'s robe, which might have put some folks off the whole gambling thing. Other than © I have not seen a specific Biblical reference to gambling as such, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a heck of a lot. Frankly, I always considered it a tax on idiots. Thanks to all the lottery players for paying some of my taxes; I just feel bad that most of them really can’t afford it. The above does not apply, IMO, to the kind of gambling where there is no house take, like when folks play a game of poker together and it’s just a matter of the money changing hands among willing participants. Personally, I don’t criticize people who go to casinos with a set amount of money, willing to spend that money in return for the fun that they have playing the games. Presumably this is not money that is really needed to pay the rent or buy food for the babies, etc. In that context it doesn’t seem that different to me from paying the same amount of money to see a show, or to buy something else one enjoys. But I really do think it’s immoral for a government agency to benefit from people’s weakness. Oh, and horse racing is o.k., too, because it’s fun to watch the animals. ---
**Author:** ![greck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ab992/32.png) [@greck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greck)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/13 "2003-04-03T22:28:56Z")
The only really good argument for the morality or immorality of gambling is that it’s more about the trappings of gambling. The stuff that comes with it. Prostitution Drunkenness Fighting and General immorality I think the indian gaming casinos, or the riverboat casinos complete with childcare and a movie theater, nah, they’re clear of god’s anger. I think any religious stance on gambling is like not eating shellfish cause the bible says so. A bit archaic, served a good purpose at the time, but we’ve evolved beyond that. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/14 "2003-04-04T07:34:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MLS \* > \*\*Other than © I have not seen a specific Biblical reference to gambling as such, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a heck of a lot. \*\* There are [23 references](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?SearchType=AND&language=english&searchpage=0&search=cast+lots&version=NIV) to “casting lots” (making choices based on random events - essentially gambling) in the Bible, mostly in the Hebrew Scriptures, although the [choosing of an apostle to replace Judas](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=ACTS+1:20-27&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) is an interesting New Testament event involving the choosing of lots… > [@](#): > > _originally posted by greck_ > **I think any religious stance on gambling is like not eating shellfish cause the bible says so. A bit archaic, served a good purpose at the time, but we’ve evolved beyond that.** It’s interesting how we haven’t managed to evolve beyond drunkenness and adultery yet. :dubious: Grim ---
**Author:** ![Maximum\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b77776/32.png) [@Maximum\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maximum_C)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/15 "2003-04-04T08:06:18Z")
Actually… Roulette has the second best odds in the house. Betting on red or black is nearly a 50/50 bet (made less so by those stupid 0 squares.) If you wanna play for a long time, Roulette’s good. Craps is another great game to play house. Over the long term, if you lay on the pass and then back it up once the game goes On, you’ve got (statistcally) exactly a 50/50 shot. You should win as much as you lose, overall. It’s worth bearing in mind that, even at even odds, chances are the casino will take your money. Why? Cause it has inifinite resources. You can get unlucky for a few minutes, and while statistically you should be able to come right back up later, you might drop too low and be out of the game. That will never happen to the house. Of course, the best payouts and odds come when you play in games against other casino patrons- like poker. But you dont make any friends, and you have to be more skilled than them to win out. -C ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/16 "2003-04-04T13:00:54Z")
To some people, too, wealth is simply gift from God, and must be used wisely. Gambling doesn’t count, I think. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/17 "2003-04-04T15:34:26Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by Guinastasia_ > But seriously, I think it could also be about “games of chance”, relying on “luck” instead of prayer? That might be, but if it is, it probably shouldn’t be. In looking over > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by grimpixie_ > There are [23 references](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?SearchType=AND&language=english&searchpage=0&search=cast+lots&version=NIV) to “casting lots” (making choices based on random events - essentially gambling) in the Bible, mostly in the Hebrew Scriptures, although the [choosing of an apostle to replace Judas](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=ACTS+1:20-27&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) is an interesting New Testament event involving the choosing of lots… i found that a few of them said pretty much this: > [@](#): > > cast lots for you in the presence of the LORD our God. Now, let me know if I’m reading too much into this, but it appears that the casting of lots was considered an official method to consult God for an an answer to a selection-type question. (It probably helped if someone godly was doing the casting.) After all, God could control everything, so he could _put_ the ball in 00 (or whatever) if that resulted in the lamb/apostle that he wanted getting picked. Yes, this boils out to “God **wanted** uncle Jim to lose his shirt”, but it appears that in the good old days, casting lots was (sometimes) practically a kind of prayer. The selection of Judas’s replacement by lots seems to bear this out. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/18 "2003-04-04T16:15:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MLS \* > But I really do think it’s immoral for a government agency to benefit from people’s weakness. Oh, and horse racing is o.k., too, because it’s fun to watch the animals. Just to set the record straight… Here in Ontario, both the federal and provincial governments take a percentage of the mutuel pools at the racetrack. According to the information in the back of the Woodbine program, Ontario gets 0.5% of the pool, and Canada gets 0.8%. I’m sure that other jurisdictions where racing takes place have a similar arrangement as well, so perhaps we can agree that governments do benefit monetarily from horse race gambling too. And even in racing, there is a “house take,” since the track takes a cut off the top of the pool too. The amount depends of the type of pool it is (win-place-show, exactor, triactor, daily double, etc.); you can find details of the exact percentages in the program and in the _Daily Racing Form_. I’m most familiar with the track, since that’s where most of my gambling activity takes place, but wouldn’t governments also benefit from casino gambling as well? Surely a casino would have to pay a government some sort of licence and/or permit fees to operate legally? Oh, and I should address this too: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MLS \* > (a) The gambler is trying to get something without working for it, which is essentially attempting to steal. Have you ever tried handicapping a race card from the past performances in the _Daily Racing Form_? That’s hard work! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/19 "2003-04-04T16:52:34Z")
Spoons – I should have put a little smiley in there somewhere. I know the gov’m’nt gets part of the take at a racetrack, too. I don’t really know how their percentage of the take compares to what they get from the casinos. Yes, here in NJ the state gets various fees from the legal Atlantic City casinos, plus AFAIK cut of the take. I think the biggest tax on idiots is the state-run lottery; IMHO it’s really obscene. The odds against winning are astronomical, and the house rake off the top is very large. Sorry, I don’t have actual stats. That’s the one I feel bad about because I think the state is ripping people off. I wish we didn’t have a state lottery. But hey, if somebody else wants to pay some of my taxes for me, I guess that’s his choice. Mostly I’m passing on info as to some of the reasons why gambling is thought by some to be “wrong.” I don’t think it’s wrong, but I don’t think it’s a good idea, and I don’t understand throwing away money on it. Except for horse racing, which is fun 😃 I actually do go to the track about once a year with a group of friends. We bring coolers and sit in the shade in the picnic area. Some of us place bets, some don’t. When I do place a bet, I think it’s more fun to see if you “win” by watching a horse race than by scraping some shiny stuff off a card. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861/20 "2003-04-05T00:17:34Z")
I’m curious about how much of this attitude that gambling is wrong is peculiarly American. You see, I keep hearing and reading arguments that gambling is immoral, especially when the issue of allowing slot machines at race tracks or riverboat gambling comes up, yet the daily paper has the odds and the spread for football games and other games, not to mention state lotteries. I’m a devout Christian, but I can’t come up with a Bible-based arguement against gambling, any more than I can a Bible-based argument against taking drugs. Yes, some people gamble to excess; others drink to excess; others, I’m told may shop or do other things to excess. Me, sometimes I suspect I post to excess.😉 Does that mean that gambling, drinking, shopping, or posting should be made illegal for all people because some are adversely affected by it? I don’t mind admitting I like gambling occaisionally, and it can make a sporting event even more fun. I also put it roughly in the category of video games – I’m spending money having fun. It’s just that sometimes I don’t lose which also isn’t all bad. Then again, what offended me when my state got a lottery was that it paid 500 to 1 on a 1000 to 1 shot! CJ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-gambling/165861.md?page=2)